1v1 server question

Quake III Arena classic game servers forum.
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1v1 server question

Post by oKo*Magister »

I like to play duels, but one thing bothers me and I was just wondering.. Why isn't duel server unlagged?
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Re: 1v1 server question

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because is a shitty ages old mod reserved just for the most elitist of the elitist players. keep in mind that adding unlagged to the mix causes inconsistencies on the game no elitist player would ever accept (i.e. you would hit them when they were behind a corner on their screen meaning screenshot plus immediate irrevocable withdrawal from the game due to absurdly garbage server just to put a example) as well as changes on the overall gameplay/weapon balance again no elitist player would ever dare to accept either (i.e. basically just spit on the name of it and uninstall) not even to mention better located/equipped players would lose their advantage there (i.e. you can not just travel to Nuremberg to compete and get a solid advantage or invest on new equipment to overpower the competence anymore) something once again just unthinkable and unacceptable in the mind of a elitist player. bottom line no elitist player would ever recognize any single result, not even a single hit, on anything else but that kind of setup. as I said other times, is just the complete opposite to everything else here and why one thing is top while the other is just a ridiculous piece of garbage nobody cares about outside of the marginal elitist circle. anyways now in a less toxic demeanor despite all that both things are still offered to meet the demands of those players and after all once paired with the provided packages it doesn't even play that bad I must also say so they complement each other/it offers something different. probably is just that people here is too used to rely on rail at UnFreeZe (where is probably arguably a bit overpowered after all) while there is more of a support weapon for several reasons some of them not just even being the unlagged. anyways as I said may be some day I also deploy another unlagged alternative duel server but that's probably not a priority at this time and a different story.
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Re: 1v1 server question

Post by oKo*Magister »

Ok, understood. Thanks for the answer!
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Re: 1v1 server question

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First, sorry for necro posting :) Only saw thread as it was still linked on front page.

Second, sorry for big post. I am very invested in this topic.

Third, that is not an elitist attitude :D that is attitude of players who are not elite and need ping advantage IMO. Anyone who hates playing on unlag has probably never played on lan before or just has no idea how it works.

Most elite players prefer everything to be as close to lan as possible. That means removing any ping advantages. The last of the american quake3 players, good and bad, all highly preferred unlagged as it was a much more even playing field to test your duel skill against another player instead of just testing your ping.

I also know several relatively high tier and actively competitive QL CTF players in EU who really preferred competing on quake3 unlag servers back when it was possible for them to do so (some drama happened that stopped it).

I know of two unlagged vq3 duel servers in EU. Think OSP, but just unlagged. It would be nice to see it catch on in EU as well because in america it allowed serious EU players, NA players, and SA players all to play together. Lower ping is still an advantage, but higher ping becomes much more competitive and minor differences don't matter as much.

As an "elitist" player who would rather play duel all day than anything else, it might be slightly annoying to get hit behind a corner but I understand that it was my fault as I was not behind a corner on the opponents screen. I would rather play people at their best, where they actually hit the shots they are capable of on their end.

You can disagree with me of course, but I am of a very firm opinion that anyone who dislikes unlag is only interested in their opponents missing shots :D
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Re: 1v1 server question

Post by adminless »

no worries and please be welcome to the forum. I know and probably I even agree but in line with what I wrote originally unfortunately as you can see when it comes to competitive Quake III Arena duels that's what people demands even till this day, I mean, at least around here. for the rest, as I see it at this point rather than a q3 unlagged duel server what probably makes the most sense to me it's just having the qlmasters server which at the end of the day is just that on essence (a revised/updated unlagged q3) but unfortunately it's not as played. trying to bring anything else would probably be a waste of time as competitive duel players demand very specific settings and would probably shy away from any other kind of custom setup so for other than osp/vql I don't see it happening. anyways, thank you for your input.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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adminless wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:03 no worries and please be welcome to the forum. I know and probably I even agree but in line with what I wrote originally unfortunately as you can see when it comes to competitive Quake III Arena duels that's what people demands even till this day, I mean, at least around here. for the rest, as I see it at this point rather than a q3 unlagged duel server what probably makes the most sense to me it's just having the qlmasters server which at the end of the day is just that on essence (a revised/updated unlagged q3) but unfortunately it's not as played. trying to bring anything else would probably be a waste of time as competitive duel players demand very specific settings and would probably shy away from any other kind of custom setup so for other than osp/vql I don't see it happening. anyways, thank you for your input.
I would agree with "at least around here".

I disagree that it is the view point of competitive duel players though as I am a competitive duel player, and know a lot of other duel players, and we do not think this way.

It is only a small group of players who will only play vanilla OSP. Mostly these players are not even competitive. Catering to people who are only interest in their opponents missing shots seems very poor from my perspective. Any serious competitor wants their opponent to play their best.

Obviously I have a biased interest though, as to play in EU I will be >140 ping. However even low ping games for me in NA, unlag is preferred.

Either way, I do not think that anything will change. I simply hope that unlag will gain more traction with EU duel players to expand the pool of players who can play.

Lastly, quakelive is not a stand-in for quake3 unlag. The netcode in quakelive is not true unlag, and there are many other changes. Physics, damages, spawn system, knockback, hitboxes, and visuals to name a few. Appreciating quakelive and quake3 can be separate.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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I know but actually I think that your answer comes to add more to my argument rather than taking away from it. think that although not to the same extend but also to some extend it could be said that the difference between vql and q3 unlagged (or even UnFreeZe btw) would be the same as between q3 unlagged and osp. yes, I know the changes are probably of different magnitude but even if more subtle the point there is basically that, that there's indeed a difference and hence on your own words at competitive level they make separated things. basically it comes down to that, to introduce anything else beyond the widely accepted classic masters setup I'd rather go for quakelive than anything else as that's probably what has been played the most (I mean, even at pro esport level) and thus what will be the most widely accepted. all the rest is probably just not gonna end up working out and thus a waste of time in my opinion. think as well that is not as simple, don't assume that every osp player has low latency, thing is also that many on the q3 scene got used to significant lag play (of course not +100 msec but typically half that) and therefor they are the ones that are unable to land the shots themselves when such lag is gone for example.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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Thinking of unlagged and osp as different games the same way you'd view quakelive as a different game is a pretty far stretch.

Quakelive: More air acceleration, different visuals, different hitboxes, more knockback, plasma prestep, faster rockets, weaker lg, weaker mg, lower splash damages with harsher fall off, different spawn system, variable hit sounds, and netcode more comparable to cpma

Quake3 unlag: Same damages, same visuals, same movement, same knockback, same splash, same hitboxes, same spawn system, better netcode.

Unlag done right is just osp, but better. Some of the unlag servers I've played on are built right on top of osp. Everyone has the same opportunity to hit shots. It is a more even playing field like lan.

It is no secret that vanilla OSP heavily favors lower ping. You can get used to playing on 50 or 60, but it is still much easier to hit shots on 10 ping. This creates a significantly unfair advantage for low ping that only exists online.

LAN in quake3 everyone is under 10 ping. Everyone should have high accuracy. Unlag is the closest to replicating this feel. If some one hates playing unlagged vq3, then they just hate vq3 without a ping advantage. On lan, everyone hits hard. On unlag, everyone hits hard. On osp, only the low ping hit hard.

Not to mention all the benefits of unlagged opening up region locks. It allows players from other regions to play together, although with a slight handicap. This just means more players and more competition and is a pure benefit.

I am one of the elitist duel players, just happen to be from NA. I talk to other duel players frequently from both NA and EU. It is only a very small portion who are against unlagged, and their reasons are questionable.

EDIT: The point I am trying to make is not just that unlagged is better, but that saying "elitist duel players" prefer lagged OSP is just false. A couple duel players who want to maintain ping advantage prefer lagged OSP and that is all. I don't expect changes, but at least want to share that understanding.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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if by chance you have ever played at the main servers here (UnFreeZe) which are basically a unlagged mod you can tell that there's definitively significant differences from osp. besides unless you talking about hacked servers/mods or stuff like that I don't even know what you talking about some unlag servers built right on top of osp. osp is osp and unlagged is unlagged and they are two very different mods with very different options and that's also in part what adds to the issue (I mean, by setting a unlagged server, which I insists unless it's a hacked version or something like that osp is not unlagged and it doesn't come with it either, you lose most of the functionalities with osp. basically you just end with a vanilla server only that it compensate latency).
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Re: 1v1 server question

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adminless wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 0:40 if by chance you have ever played at the main servers here (UnFreeZe) which are basically a unlagged mod you can tell that there's definitively significant differences from osp. besides unless you talking about hacked servers/mods or stuff like that I don't even know what you talking about some unlag servers built right on top of osp. osp is osp and unlagged is unlagged and they are two very different mods with very different options and that's also in part what adds to the issue (I mean, by setting a unlagged server, which I insists unless it's a hacked version or something like that osp is not unlagged and it doesn't come with it either, you lose most of the functionalities with osp. basically you just end with a vanilla server only that it compensate latency).
Not referring to e+ or mods based on it as obviously there are more differences, though with enough effort you can configure e+ to work exactly like vq3. I'm still hopeful q3+ eventually gets there. There are servers that are just osp+unlagged, or osp-like at least. q3msk has it figured out and they just spun up a new one (not on their site yet), but it has no projectile compensation. There is also another mod and group of servers that works better with projectile compensation and is much smoother, but there is some drama and politics so it is difficult to recommend or advertise. More than happy to DM on discord and look at these with people if they have just never seen them. The servers I am talking about play 100% like OSP, but with unlag.
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Re: 1v1 server question

Post by adminless »

may be have a quick test to the ffa or ctf servers and let me know if that's more like what you're talking about.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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adminless wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:38 may be have a quick test to the ffa or ctf servers and let me know if that's more like what you're talking about.
ffa.fpsclasico.de:27964 pulled from links

It is not unlagged, you have no self damage, and you spawn with everything. So no.

I am talking about normal osp duel in every way, just +unlagged. Warmup, spawn MG and 125/0, spawn farthest from death, MG doing 7, LG doing 8, rail doing 100, sg doing 110, rocket splash up to 100, and all the other normal settings. Usually played to timelimit 7, 10, or 15. Ammo boxes 40, health 35, armors 25, weapons either 5 or 15. Normal run speed 320, normal air acceleration, and normal damage based knockback. Running the osp pk3 files on the client side whether it runs out of baseq3 or osp on the server side.

I know of at least 2 servers in EU like that right now. One of them is nl.q3msk.ru which runs their weird osp+unlag thing, and I have no idea how they got it working. The other runs a proprietary mod.

Q3+ is close, but it does choose to do QL weapon balance mixed with a unique spawn system and q3 ammo. I know there was talks about getting a vq3 mode for that, which would perfectly mimic osp gameplay just with the e+ unlag. I'm still hopeful for that as a cool future for some q3 duel servers, but there is no ETA and there are already osp+unlag servers as mentioned.

It is not a gameplay problem. It is just people wanting to maintain their ping advantage over others :D and they do not speak for good duel players in general.
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Re: 1v1 server question

Post by adminless »

the ffa server is indeed unlagged so if that doesn't work for you (when it comes to the unlagged/physics thing not the rulesets) nothing else around here will. by reading you I have the feeling you're confusing real unlagged mods with zpm or just anything else. other than that you're just going to get that, a different thing, hacked mods or simply straight cons.
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Re: 1v1 server question

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adminless wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:53 the ffa server is indeed unlagged so if that doesn't work for you (when it comes to the unlagged/physics thing not the rulesets) nothing else around here will. by reading you I have the feeling you're confusing real unlagged mods with zpm or just anything else. other than that you're just going to get that, a different thing, hacked mods or simply straight cons.
No confusion, I know the game well.

Possibly setting related on the ffa server as it was NOT unlagged. I had to lead my rail significantly to hit.

This is was unlagged, played on about 140 ping in open arena, ratmod (recorded live by spectator):


This was also unlagged, about 70 ping vs 100ish (rendered from demo):


Also play q3+ all the time which has unlagged hitscan, in both duel and ift. q3+ is built on top of e+ and uses the e+ unlag which isn't the best but it works.

OSP + unlag server as an example is nl.q3msk.ru, not all of q3msk is unlagged but that server is. Just played a game yesterday vs another american there to feel it out, ended with 43% LG on 140 ping.
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Re: 1v1 server question

Post by adminless »

I repeat, I can tell you for a fact the ffa server is indeed unlagged and pretty much I believe everyone around can tell you the same. I double checked it and there's no mistake about it. matter of facts, all the servers around here run some sort of lag compensation or another except for the classic masters one among other things for the reasons I already wrote here. it looks to me like probably your client is totally broken beyond belief or just simply incompatible here so please try again with one of the provided clients (ioq3v6-unfreeze-client-v21.7.zip or fpsclasico-client-community-edition.zip, 32 or 64 bit) as-is without any other files added or removed from that except for the pak0.pk3 file and let me know if it's still broken for you.