Ramp jumps

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RH
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by RH »

adminless wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:06 I sure noticed that the trajectories differed just as the games do, that was expected, so what? as I see it that's just the way clipping works there (I don't really think that's a "bug" and even if it were, bugs has always been part of the game, you even brought yourself that argument previously about strafing which I did not even bother in talk about) so it's not my fucking fault if the game is broken (according to you) so complain to them then why they haven't fixed it but if you're gonna tell me that it's just not possible to pull off some trick (which I had took your word on that and that's the only you add here so you save me testing time) it's better gonna be or then I'm really gonna be pissed. moreover, I also wrote this plenty of other times already, just copying/imitating qukelive (or something else) it's not even the point of this, but to be honest just after seeing that that's in fact the way the game (quakelive) comes by default (no custom settings, no anything, not even "proper" cfg) I have no doubts anymore about the rampjump settings here.
You COMPLETELY missed the point. Again. You lack the proper knowledge about the game to even have this argument. Pointless to argue with you when you just constantly fill in the blanks with your own fantasies and ignore everything that is told to you.

You are trying so hard for a "gotcha" moment that you posted 3 separate jumps and said they were all the same because you don't even understand the movement mechanics enough to see the differences.

Ruin the duel server however you want. It is already not worth playing on. Just admit that it is your own weird little bullshit mod, stop it from running out of the OSP game folder if its not going to be anywhere near vanilla, and stop saying it is the "intended" or "correct" way to play because you honestly just have zero clue about quake3.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by PacMan »

adminless wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:06 I sure noticed that the trajectories differed just as the games do, that was expected, so what? as I see it that's just the way clipping works there (I don't really think that's a "bug" and even if it were, bugs has always been part of the game, you even brought yourself that argument previously about strafing which I did not even bother in talk about) so it's not my fucking fault if the game is broken (according to you) so complain to them then why they haven't fixed it but if you're gonna tell me that it's just not possible to pull off some trick (which I had took your word on that and that's the only you add here so you save me testing time) it's better gonna be or then I'm really gonna be pissed. moreover, I also wrote this plenty of other times already, just copying/imitating qukelive (or something else) it's not even the point of this, but to be honest just after seeing that that's in fact the way the game (quakelive) comes by default (no custom settings, no anything, not even "proper" cfg) I have no doubts anymore about the rampjump settings here.
So this means you going to allow switching it off in duel server ?
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adminless
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

@pacman sure the only reason it hasn't been already it's because I thought nobody cared about. that's not big deal, I'll add it these days if that's what people want as well as plenty of other unfreeze tier maps to that server for fun.

@RH same result just meaningless/irrelevant differences, yeah, later call me pedantic, like for the hundredth time like if I would have ever claimed it/pretended it to be something else. that's exactly not the point as you're noting yourself that being said it's always great to know/investigate to that extend about other physics and games, not really to imitate them, copy them or anything but as comparison and as a frame of reference to know what's possible, what's not and test the limits.

btw just for the record I've been testing today quakelive for this and the game is just way too broken, you should appreciate at least that I did not add the "rampjumps" there cause they are a total joke as you can see bellow (yeah on some maps they appear to work on others it's just a mess). also the thing there (that was also brought before here) from what I saw (from the settings) it appears to be that what's known as "double jumps"/"ramp jumps" there are really something else different the folks at quakelive call "chain jumps" which explain the overall different behavior. matter of facts the real double jump option there did not really made any meaningful difference on what I could test (also broken). obviously as a closed source game what exactly these quakelive "chain jumps" do is not known but that explains your claim that quakelive "double jumps" are softer (at least on final version because on earlier versions it would still be to determine) since they are obviously different things and therefor will act differently. so I added "classic" (cpm style) double jumps and ramp jumps here not modern (quakelive style) "double jumps"/"ramp jumps" (i.e. chain jumps apparently) which are a different thing.

PS: don't ask me why the audio is out sync as I don't use to render quakelive video that much
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adminless
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

btw sorry for the necro posting hehe but I was just posting this right when the server went down and I just finished setting up the new workstation for the videos now. here it's another couple of good jumps for pukka that I even believed that were not possible but I had just found that worked while more thoroughly digging quakelive/scene material. as said, from I had tested they probably won't work just like that on quakelive (at least the "final" version) as there's no even really "double jumps" per se there but instead something else specific to quakelive called "chain jumps" so the comparison doesn't even make sense (at least for "final" version). nevertheless this is all good solid known community stuff (matter of facts, I just found those specific ones on videos like this so again it's not like I'm making up any stuff or inventing something "new"). overall from what I had tested I believe the settings provide a fair balance and mix of features and new possibilities.
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Re: Ramp jumps

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btw these days I finally added the option to disable this on the duel server with the setting \setu cg_rampjump 0 (after \setu cg_rampjump "" command or cfg initialization) as intended (despite it's likely not gonna be used there anyways) just in case sombody is interested on that. as for the ctf I revised it these days for the potential community event in case it would happen (which appears it's not gonna be the case) and for other than a few extra tricks here and there probably not that relevant overall I did not find much use for this there under the most usual circumstances/situations at the usual maps so for consistence I'll just leave it off there (i.e. I won't add it). from what I tested the only relevant/important use for this it would be at notorious community map oasago2 despite "rampjumps" not even really being canon there (openarena). again as with most of the standard maps posted here despite that it's interesting how well the map adapts and plays with these settings anyways. matter of facts, I'd even say this specific map plays better with rampjumps than it does normally and that it's as well a perfect arena to test/train all these physics as shown on the video bellow for reference. the platform jumps I assume given the proper circumstances (i.e. settings, equipment, experience etc) will be as well normally possible that being said, definitively not that easy (I wasn't personally able to pull them off myself in a quick normal test), let alone that conveniently (normally most of the time you hit a ramp it just kills most of your momentum). the rest of the tricks are obviously specific rampjumps, in particular, it stands the bridge/balcony jump on oasago2.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

following this topic and hopefully to finish with it as I basically spent the weekend checking/updating and setting up the fpsclasico quakelive servers I thought I'll just post here a basic comparison between both games on canon quakelive exclusive maps in case someone is interested on that and want some more on than topic that just one very specific jump to get a better understatement. all the quakelive renders on the video are performed on vanilla local quakelive while the UnFreeZe renders on the very same everything just with the local UnFreeZe client package and on quakelive converted maps (obviously). obviously if you compare them frame by frame they differ but just as it differs everything else (acceleration, clipping, air control etc etc), it's not really a thing of the double jumps, they are obviously different games. that being said the difference is far from dramatic or totally unplayable as some had put it here, sure some jumps (not just double jumps also single jumps) work on one but not on the other just all the same as it can be said the other way around but overall it just play all the same (if not better in my opinion) without any problems as can be seen.

additionally while we're a it here you have a extended cut with some extra interesting double ramp jumps I also came across the weekend that are as well normally (i.e. meant by the mappers not made up) possible with these physics. I think from those it stands out ospdm4 that it's supposed to be the pinnacle of canonical Quake III Arena and that I'd even say that without these physics is hardly playable (no wonder it never really got that much played) and the mega health/bridge double jump exit on pro-q3dm13 that I had completely overlooked until now.

as usual you have all the individual demos available here in case someone wanna check those out and I think that should now close the topic as I believe that by now I already successfully tested/showed if not all available maps (which is not even possible to begin with) at least a sufficient amount of them. finally as a small bonus in case someone is interested as I spend the weekend on quakelive I also updated hub3aeroq3 on the duel servers (both) with the cpm(22) items and the quakelive spawns and pro-nodm9 with quakelive items and classic spawns that had been requested in the past and seemed like the best options so far.
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Shantu
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by Shantu »

I have been playing with cg_rampjump 0 recently (you might even see it in tournament vids) but it's kinda weird on the servers.
I'm not sure how it works, but my guess is some kind of client prediction not accounting for the switch, so quickly jumping up on stairs and ramps (like you would in vq3) gives you this strange warp where you are propelled into the air for a moment, then back onto the stairs. This really messes with the rhythm of the jumps. Can't quite explain it better in words, I think you should see it/feel it quite quickly on any long stairs or the ramp on dm11.
I guess it's not a priority setting but it would be very cool if cg_rampjump could allow you to use 100% vanilla-feel movement.

I can try recording a vid if needed, as this does not show up on demos.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*CTHULHU »

Shantu wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 15:57 I have been playing with cg_rampjump 0 recently (you might even see it in tournament vids) but it's kinda weird on the servers.
I'm not sure how it works, but my guess is some kind of client prediction not accounting for the switch, so quickly jumping up on stairs and ramps (like you would in vq3) gives you this strange warp where you are propelled into the air for a moment, then back onto the stairs. This really messes with the rhythm of the jumps. Can't quite explain it better in words, I think you should see it/feel it quite quickly on any long stairs or the ramp on dm11.
I guess it's not a priority setting but it would be very cool if cg_rampjump could allow you to use 100% vanilla-feel movement.

I can try recording a vid if needed, as this does not show up on demos.
how did you manage to disable the extra jump?? I tried to do it manually in the game but the command seems to be inactive. Additionally, I tried to set it in the .cfg file but I still did not achieve the intended result.
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Shantu
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by Shantu »

oKo*CTHULHU wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 16:45 how did you manage to disable the extra jump?? I tried to do it manually in the game but the command seems to be inactive. Additionally, I tried to set it in the .cfg file but I still did not achieve the intended result.
It took me a while to make it work too. Using the unfreeze client, adding it to your q3config.cfg does nothing because the mod or the client seems to create a ufconfig-2005.cfg file from it on each launch that strips a lot of stuff, including cg_rampjump. So I created a new scripts.cfg file and added these two lines:

Code: Select all

setu cg_rampjump ""
cg_rampjump 0
As I understand, the first line defines the command, the second line sets its value.
Then I type

Code: Select all

exec scripts
from the console whenever I join a server. I haven't tried but you might be able to use a bind for the exec command.
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adminless
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

yes, if you put that in your autoexec.cfg file it will probably work as well. yes, probably I would have to review that in the mod in another version as it probably won't work as you're noting. obviously I didn't add that option with the people that uses the mod in mind.