Ramp jumps

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oKo*Magister
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Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*Magister »

Hello. Is it me or you added ramp jumps to unfreeze? I can feel my jumps being higher on stairs. I don't think it's a good thing for vq3 physics as well as for classic maps, disturbs me especially on dm6 YA stairs since I noticed it
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

yes I added that stuff from cpma these days since as this keep growing in popularity and it plays/does something else beside just those standard maps you're talking about that's required as you can see on the videos down bellow (first video disabled, second video enabled):

in any case that's just a minor minimal change and if anything it should add to the mobility (in a positive way) not take from it though to be honest I'm quite surprised you just picked that up right away.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by ...jutuli... »

Not very good, now i usualy losing movement rhytm when jumping up on stairs. Much worse when I do RJ on stairs, I am gonna smash my head on the ceiling. It is not a minimal change, it is very noticeable. Hope its just a test...
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

I guess I can probably make it so that you can opt out at some point if it disturbs you so much but in such case then you're clearly gonna be at a disadvantage towards the rest since you're gonna be moving slower beside I don't even know how you pretend to attack the red armor on a neck to neck hub3aeroq3 nose bleeding game. on vq3 only the first one of those (which I recorded twice, with and without the settings for reference/consistence) is available, that's really the way the red is meant to be captured/defended/played there, no good.

and that's just another quick example of a pretty much canonical prime tier map, now the possibilities and plays on other maps are probably endless. I really believe it's a key element and a must have that probably should have been introduced earlier as that was likely handicapping and undermining many players game. overall unless you're gonna go around smashing the jump button like crazy it shouldn't really make any difference (hence the surprise) and it definitively shouldn't affect rocketjumps (again unless you smashed the jump button like crazy early on). it's not like crazy air control physics or other crazy physics shits, to some extend, I'd really consider that "canonical" as well as you could saw on the videos.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*Magister »

I don't like it. I think vq3 should stay vq3 all the way. If I'd like to play duel with ramp jumps, i'd just play on cpma. In my opinion it's a big change that will affect on many actions that happen on unfreeze. Ramp jumps are good things, but just not for this server. I hope you will change that back, because it really hurts my/jutuli's movement and some other players too I believe. Vq3 is how we learned to play here and I think it should be as it always was.

Yeah I noticed that right away, because I look closely at movement :D
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by ...jutuli... »

I will not have any disadvantage from that, i.e. my movement up to the longer stairs by strafejumping is much faster with good rhytm. With higher jumping at every step, it will be confusing and slower - at least for me. Anyway, your server, your rules, i can live with that. But this change is not good by my opinion.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

thing is that those ramp jumps aren't a feature of the game type (i.e. duels) or the mod (i.e. cpma) but of the maps themselves so difficult requesting/pretending to play something else beside always the same standard maps when they aren't even really supported. also for the record, the UnFreeZe mod you talking about isn't even really canonical vq3 either, it has always been modified and it has always had changes over just canonical vq3 since the beginning and that's actually what has always made it better, at least arguably. the only really canonical vq3 server here is the pure masters one (and even so when strictly played at 125 fps) and I think I can tell you that for fact.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*Magister »

I meant the movement physics, not being canonical vq3 server
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by PacMan »

adminless wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 23:21 thing is that those ramp jumps aren't a feature of the game type (i.e. duels) or the mod (i.e. cpma) but of the maps themselves so difficult requesting/pretending to play something else beside always the same standard maps when they aren't even really supported. also for the record, the UnFreeZe mod you talking about isn't even really canonical vq3 either, it has always been modified and it has always had changes over just canonical vq3 since the beginning and that's actually what has always made it better, at least arguably. the only really canonical vq3 server here is the pure masters one (and even so when strictly played at 125 fps) and I think I can tell you that for fact.
Basically they are not good with control so probably need it as an option :lolno:
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by RH »

I'm in the camp that this is a bad decision. More mobility changes the game a lot. Not minor at all.

Already get very annoyed with changes on unfreeze because its far from vanilla. Turning it into cpma-lite sounds even worse :D If people want cpma, they should probably just go play cpma.

Why do people hate quake3 so much that they must change everything about it?

I get it that unfreeze is a super casual mode and is in no way competitive so it doesn't need to follow a competitive standard, but having it be some weird modification changing tons of small things just pisses off the people who play q3 because they like q3. Already basically impossible to take anything that happens on the mod seriously.

Your mod, your server, so do whatever you want. Just saying its not a small change and anything not vanilla definitely pisses players off.

Worth mentioning that it is already possible to go up the stairs and turn around for a single jump to RA in vq3 on hub. May not look as nice but you just have to stand a little more left. Attached demo. Could be more optimal or faster, but it was just a one take to show its possible.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by RH »

Okay I had to test, not only is double jump bad, its not even client predicted so its poorly implemented and jarring on higher ping.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by fernandinho1337 »

the physics generally feel broken now. i cant describe it but its responding very differently even when not ramp jumping.

as the server is generally a bit different we would probably get used to it but it reduces fun on public heavily right now
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by PacMan »

fernandinho1337 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 14:48 the physics generally feel broken now. i cant describe it but its responding very differently even when not ramp jumping.

as the server is generally a bit different we would probably get used to it but it reduces fun on public heavily right now
Dude I think that's the point tho "public" most don't care

Maybe main server shouldn't have it and these kinda changes left to free fun server? :think: 🤔
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

hehe that's a good one rh but that's really just a shortened (elite level btw) variation of the same/known standard one. instead of the usual first jump to gain speed you just use a circle there. you could probably just launch that motion from anywhere on the top (and from any direction) that I assume it should just work all the same. you basically just used the stairs to get there. that has really nothing to do with them or the other jumps that do really make use of them as you can see with a bigger context down bellow now. if you noticed even the stairs length is there to accommodate that movement/jump as well as pretty much the whole part geometry and that's the point. sure they are as well all playable with canon settings but outside of the standard maps the vast majority of custom maps are at least optimized for those kind of physics modifications. as said I assume the possibilities and examples are probably endless, I just brought those as some very notorious ones so hard making custom maps work without custom settings.

as for the standard maps I've been testing them too now and overall they just play the same. it's probably just a matter of habit and get used to other timing as seen on the video. if some stairs before took like 3/4 jumps to get through them now just with 2 or 3 jumps they are done and you can even chain them.

ok, let's see if later I can post here a quick client patch with the updated client settings for you to properly test it. yes, currently it's just a server side setting, the client side prediction is missing. I was going to post all that along with the rest of the patches on some proper full/complete packages as usual but that will probably still take some more time (and testing) so stay tuned.
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Re: Ramp jumps

Post by fernandinho1337 »

I played it just a bit now and I am not impressed. I sometimes see teammates or enemies and it feels like they behave like pingpong with these long and high jumps then getting hit bouncing around.

@adminless would you consider after giving it a few weeks asking the people on the server what they like more? I am really concerned this change might make go in a wrong way

best regards