Ramp jumps

UnFreeZe/FreeFUn/glacius Game Servers forum.
PacMan
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 1111
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 16:09
in-game nick: PacMan.EZ
Location: u.k

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by PacMan »

...jutuli... wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 18:25
RH wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 0:19 So this "feature" finally found its way to the duel server. Really disappointed a choice to ruin the almost entirely vanilla duel server was made :(
Just turn it off for yourself as I did. Not good "upgrade", but at least it can be disableable.
Simple then lol
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

@RH dude seriously just don't waste my time with any more crap because I don't even care. that's your take on that, great no problems, fantastic, I appreciate your input very much that being said I clearly disagree with you if not in all at least for the most part as I already explained so I'm not gonna be repeating myself over and over and I obviously have some personality as to make my own judgments and I just don't allow anybody else to dictate what should I or should I not do like that. that being said, I also tell you, you gonna be consequent with your own words and not come to a place you so much dislike. move on.
User avatar
...jutuli...
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 18:26
in-game nick: ...jutuli...
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by ...jutuli... »

RH wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 18:51
...jutuli... wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 18:25 Just turn it off for yourself as I did. Not good "upgrade", but at least it can be disableable.
That is not a viable solution in a game mode centered around two players being given the same tools and seeing who plays better with them. "Do you want to disable cheats while your opponent can still cheat? Y/N"
If its a disadvantage for your oponent, disabling it is an advantage for you, is it not? It make no sense to argue with owner of the server you want to play at, right?
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

as usual despite all the drama this got played yesterday in a casually competitive way and from what I saw it worked great. btw one thing that I would like to note that it probably got overlooked is the slime platform to prolong the rocket pickup on pukka3tourney2 as shown in the video for reference. clearly those platforms are there for a reason, not as decoration.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

btw also for the fans note that as I was still revising this on pukka3tourney2 there's also a notable yellow armor to grenade launcher jump as shown on the video for a good run of the map. turns out that even those fins there that might had looked irrelevant are part of the physics.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
oKo*CTHULHU
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:00
in-game nick: cTh
Location: Polska

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*CTHULHU »

as for the freezetag servers, for me the current changes are fine as long as you get used to it. (whether you like it or not, that's the way things are). I'm a player who hates new changes. I will always be skeptical about novelty, I prefer nostalgia and no change. however these changes are fine. a little dynamic won't hurt. the only thing i would like to see is a slight modification to the armor recovery, using LG on freezetag servers, i feel like a little less value would be desirable. I will only add, when it comes to jump, you can turn it off with the command. I didn't do it, sometimes I jump with a new style and sometimes I don't. if someone spams the jump button, don't be surprised that it jumps crookedly.

when it comes to duels, I played maybe 500-600 of them, so I don't feel experienced enough to speak more extensively on this topic. but one fact remains the same. the winner is the one who has more skills, strategies, timing, map reading, and accuracy. also if you are strong in duels, you will still be so regardless of whether the jumps are standard or modified. also you have two servers for dueling :
OSP settings)
Duel (with rampjump + unlagged, the rest of the settings probably remain the same OSP ). - if I missed something, which is possible - write.
There are two servers with different settings, so you play on the server where the settings are better for you.

however, if I were to play a duel, I prefer the standard settings of the mod. you like OSP, you will play on oOSP servers you like Quake live, you will play on Quake live servers. I have no problem finding another server if i want it.
Camaradas Iks De
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

I know, as I've been saying it's just the way it's, it's not a matter of skill, it's just basic geometry and the way the maps are really designed to be played from the own words of the authors and as I think that I showed extensively already and keep in mind that that's just the basic stuff. people with better skills will obviously pull those off better as well as many others too, combos and a lot more.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
oKo*Magister
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:11
in-game nick: oKo*Magister
Location: PL

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by oKo*Magister »

Pukka is my fav map but these jumps are good only for cpma in my opinion
It's all in the spirit of Aimbot. *Mankubus voice*
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

thing is that jumps are jumps and physics/geometry are physics/geometry, not rulesets, and the same goes for the maps. the map is exactly the same regardless of the rulesets which is a very different story, so they either are "good" or "bad". there's really no such thing like they are good for one ruleset but not for the other since they are different things. that being said of course one can always say that some more basic physics work/play better for him and/or prefer one over the other and that's cool and why the option to disable rampjumps is provided but again that's a very different thing from claim that the changes are retarded, doesn't make sense or that doesn't even go/work with the maps altogether.
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

I mean, just in case someone is skeptical and/or still has some concerns you can take a look at this extended cut for other very interesting jumps too. it's not just one specific jump here and there it's quite obvious the entire map is completely designed around these physics. of course, with that nobody is saying either that the maps are totally unplayable without these physics, obviously they also play and you can even tell that extra elements were specifically added as well just for that compatibility reason but that's all about it not the other way around.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
imprecise
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 17:30
in-game nick: imprecise
Location: France

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by imprecise »

Hi Adminless

Thank you and congratulations on your attempt to improve movement in the maps. Even if not everyone is 100% behind it, it has the merit of existing, and everyone is free to use it or not...

Could you give us a quick reminder of what needs to be done for ramp jump to work properly and fully, whether it's with ioq3v6-unfreeze-client-v23.5 or with fpsclasico-client-community-edition-64bits or another configuration ?

Do we need to add lines to the q3config.cfg file ?

Do we need to add files to a folder ?

What are the command lines for enabling or disabling ramp jump ?

On which servers does ramp jump work and on which servers does it not ?

Thanks in advance
"My ability to concentrate is so short that ... Oh a butterfly !"
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

there's no need to do anything as it's mostly just a server side physic. for proper client side support though the updated client game pk3 is needed which so far it's only updated on the legacy 32-bit client package as I got messed up with some systems support on the new 64 bit package and didn't have time/couldn't finish putting that package together yet. the change is added on all the unfreeze servers (1, 2, 3 and private) as well as in the (custom) duel server. it's not available in the rest of the servers (ffa, ctf and legacy masters) not at least so far (on ffa I had added it but removed it as it didn't really add anything there, it just wasn't relevant/go with the server, on the legacy masters is not available and the ctf server is probably not that much used at the moment as to really tell/decide so it's probably not worth). to disable them it's just with the specific commands I posted before in this thread (/setu cg_rampjump "" and /cg_rampjump 0) which works for the game session so there must be added to a cfg to be executed in-game after connection if desired. for a small basic physics tutorial to better understand what this is about you can read here.
RH
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 23:43

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by RH »

adminless wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:20 thing is that jumps are jumps and physics/geometry are physics/geometry, not rulesets, and the same goes for the maps. the map is exactly the same regardless of the rulesets which is a very different story, so they either are "good" or "bad". there's really no such thing like they are good for one ruleset but not for the other since they are different things. that being said of course one can always say that some more basic physics work/play better for him and/or prefer one over the other and that's cool and why the option to disable rampjumps is provided but again that's a very different thing from claim that the changes are retarded, doesn't make sense or that doesn't even go/work with the maps altogether.
You have literally ZERO clue what you are talking about when it comes to actual competitive and serious gameplay and it shows more every time you make a statement. You should have just left it.

The map will ABSOLUTELY be different depending on rule set, including physics changes. Is the bsp different? No. Is what is possible and how the map plays drastically different? Yes.

If you have to go around a big gap, or you have to slow down, or you have to turn around, or you take longer to get somewhere, THAT ALL MATTERS. That means it favors smart routing and positioning over just defrag skills. Opening new routes in maps and making existing routes faster does NOT improve gameplay, it shifts it away from the slower tactical play that VQ3 has. Example, you absolutely can jump up the boxes by 2x25 on pukka to get yellow, but in vq3 you are slow while doing so and open to a lot of damage. So all you are doing is just removing the tradeoff of taking that route and making it free. No tradeoffs = bad gameplay.

If you just said to hell with it and implemented a full CPM movement set, I'd still stomp people hard because I have almost as much time practicing CPM movement as I do VQ3 movement. The problem is, that isn't vanilla quake3 and isn't what me or other vq3 duel players want. I don't play CPMA because I don't want to play CPMA, so I also don't want to play a mod that is trying to be some knock off CPMA either.

If all you want is a go fast and hit shots duel server, just scrap your mod because CPMA already exists. If I wanted that gameplay, i'd go play one of the numerous CPMA servers that exist.

You also REALLY need to stop with this "the mapper said so" bullshit because its 100% wrong. Just take aerowalk for example. The QL version of aerowalk was also made by hub and merged both his Q3 versions of aerowalk and fine tuned it for quakelive. Quakelive does not have ramp jumps. At the time the map was implemented in quakelive, it also did not have double jumps. Are you saying he made the map for quakelive by taking the best bits of the geometry from two quake3 maps but intended it to be played with CPM movement? Your logic leaps are completely asinine. You even showed a jump getting to red by skipping the stairs on q3dm14, do you think the mappers at ID made the map with double jumps in mind? Are you going to claim that dm6 and ztn were made with cpm movement in mind too, considering they are the most played maps on that server?

I have probably put more games in on that server than anyone else since the server went live. It is absolutely baffling you dismiss this feedback and continue on with your incorrect assumptions about gameplay.

I would just leave it at the point where I'm just not playing on the server again, because its your server and I can just go play elsewhere. The problem is you keep making these horribly off the wall and completely incorrect statements while speaking from a place of almost complete ignorance for the game mode showing a very low amount of understanding for the game and making changes that you don't fully understand.
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5262
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Spain

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by adminless »

thing is that you might know a lot about the client game and have a lot of experience with it but it appears you don't really know that much about servers and settings. "Quakelive does not have ramp jumps" sure it does with the pmove_RampJump 1 setting. "it also did not have double jumps" double jumps are enabled with the setting pmove_DoubleJump 1 (not really sure when they were introduced as I never was that big on ql but I'm quite confident it wasn't too later on, most likely it simply wasn't that popular back then so you though it did not exist as plenty of the changes introduced in ql on the standard maps were in fact adding double jumps). also quakelive comes itself out of the box with the pql ruleset option which is basically cpm revised by the own cpm developers which also have worked on ql. moreover speaking of quakelive it comes as well with Quake 4 style couch slide enabled with the setting pmove_CrouchSlide 1 and that's where things get wild so you bringing quakelive doesn't really play in your favour. to be honest you just look like throwing every shit you got hoping that something sticks, not gonna happen.

they might be "new" to you or you might call them "new" but no, the routes aren't new (on custom maps), those are in fact the intended routes when the guy designed the map and I think it's quite clear. it's not like I invented those routes or something those routes have always been there since the beginning and that's the primary way to play that map. for the rest I think that you're making it very clear yourself sure just as I said you can always restrict and limit the game physics regardless of the map design anyways which in turn slows down the game and the routing and you might find that way it plays better according to your experience and that's totally cool. however it just happens a few things. first to state your opinion there's no need to discredit and invalid everyone else just like that, that's simply not acceptable (neither tolerable) behavior as I often tell you so I hope that you stop doing it as I just don't allow/put up with flame wars on this site (which is just what you do every time you show up). second, as said, that's your opinion and I highly appreciate that you have took your time to share your knowledge and experience with us and make sure that your thoughts have been fully heard and don't get me wrong I fully understand and respect your point of view however it just happens that I don't share it and our intentions don't align here and you must respect that as well and stop pressing a issue that has been already answered and addressed thoroughly (i.e. by now you're just not really adding anything new, just dropping the same shit over and over which is not tolerable). I never claimed (nor I pretend) this site to be the pinnacle of Quake III Arena competitiveness, be a world class expert or any other of the shit you're giving me so I don't really get why you always come at me with that stuff and/or try to put it that way as I always stated that I just look forward that the servers run to a decent quality standard and build a positive community that hopefully brings good times and joy/fun to their users something clearly you're not bringing here (you're just being toxic).

for the rest I'm not really gonna argue much more with a guy that is just being disrespectful as that's a waste of time but if you just want my two cents I can tell you that as I see it Quake III Arena has always been about fast pace and that's exactly what makes it fun and not about the half hour tied duel tactics you often see on the pros finals which I assume is what you talking about. for other than the money or may be for you, nobody would do that as that's not even fun to watch let alone to play, that's just boring. also let me tell you something else there's a reason why for other than you and a few handful people nobody plays that and it's such a death game.

PS: yes I just showed a few tricks on standard maps for the fans and for fun as I'm telling you, obviously not claiming those were intended as on the vast majority of the rest of the custom maps (even the vanilla osp tier btw may be you didn't know but cpm is just a osp fork in reality that ended up replacing it) still I think they work great anyways and add to the game.
RH
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 23:43

Re: Ramp jumps

Post by RH »

adminless wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:36 thing is that you might know a lot about the client game and have a lot of experience with it but it appears you don't really know that much about servers and settings. "Quakelive does not have ramp jumps" sure it does with the pmove_RampJump 1 setting. "it also did not have double jumps" double jumps are enabled with the setting pmove_DoubleJump 1 (not really sure when they were introduced as I never was that big on ql but I'm quite confident it wasn't too later on, most likely it simply wasn't that popular back then so you though it did not exist as plenty of the changes introduced in ql on the standard maps were in fact adding double jumps). also quakelive comes itself out of the box with the pql ruleset option which is basically cpm revised by the own cpm developers which also have worked on ql. moreover speaking of quakelive it comes as well with Quake 4 style couch slide enabled with the setting pmove_CrouchSlide 1 and that's where things get wild so you bringing quakelive doesn't really play in your favour. to be honest you just look like throwing every shit you got hoping that something that sticks, not gonna happen.
You are 100% wrong about all of this because PQL and hosted servers where you can modify game cvars were implemented after a majority of the maps. Did you just forget it was a browser based service game or something? Stop trying to act like you know what you are talking about when you clearly don't. I specifically remember when double jumps were introduced and players started hunting for exploits on all the maps. QL double jumps are quite tame in comparison though and double jumping to red on aerowalk is still not possible.
they might be "new" to you or you might call them "new" but no, the routes aren't new (on custom maps), those are in fact the intended routes when the guy designed the map and I think it's quite clear.
They aren't new to me. They aren't new to anyone. They just don't belong in vq3. They are "new" to the game mode. If a map plays a certain way, and you add extra movement mechanics that open up different routes, those routes are new. You are being pedantic and it really shows how hard you are losing this argument. Most of the paths you are describing aren't even intended by the developers when the map is made.
it's not like I invented those routes or something those routes have always been there since the beginning and that's the primary way to play that map.
They are not, and have never been the "primary" way to play the map. It is A way sure, its called CPM, and if people want to play CPM then the CPMA mod is still popular and has players elsewhere. As stated earlier in this thread, if I (or others) want to play CPM then we'd just go play on CPMA.
for the rest I think that you're making it very clear yourself sure just as I said you can always restrict and limit the game physics regardless of the map design anyways which in turn slows down the game and the routing and you might find that way it plays better according to your experience
No, not according to my experience, according to what quake3 is. VQ3 rule set is just the vanilla game. That is what people want to play. Sure we want extra features like unlag, spectator features, stats, etc. Modifying the gameplay just makes it NOT quake3 though. It is an old game, people play quake3 because they want quake3. If they wanted to play different physics or balance then there are other shooters out there that fit just about any preference.
and that's totally cool. however it just happens a few things. first to state your opinion there's no need to discredit and invalid everyone else just like that, that's simply not acceptable (neither tolerable) behavior as I often tell you so I hope that you stop doing it as I just don't allow/put up with flame wars on this site (which is just what you do every time you show up).
I'm just pointing out that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. There are some people here who know what they are talking about, but you are not one of them. You keep stating things as if it is fact and you are right, when you are COMPLETELY wrong and you are so ignorant about the gameplay that you don't even realize it even after being told directly. As I said, if you just wanted to make the changes and left it at that then i'd just give up and go play elsewhere, but you sit here going off about how it is the "intended" way to play and shit like that which is all just completely false.
second, as said, that's your opinion and I highly appreciate that you have took your time to share your knowledge and experience with us and make sure that your thoughts have been fully heard and don't get me wrong I fully understand and respect your point of view however it just happens that I don't share it and our intentions don't align here and you must respect that as well and stop pressing a issue that has been already answered and addressed thoroughly (i.e. by now you're just not really adding anything new, just dropping the same shit over and over which is not tolerable). I never claimed (nor I pretend) this site to be the pinnacle of Quake III Arena competitiveness, be a world class expert or any other of the shit you're giving me so I don't really get why you always come at me with that stuff and/or try to put it that way as I always stated that I just look forward that the servers run to a decent quality standard and build a positive community that hopefully brings good times and joy/fun to their users something clearly you're not bringing here (you're just being toxic).
As stated, i'd just have been mad at first then gave up and gone to play elsewhere, but you keep going on and on UNPROMPTED, spreading things positioned as if they are irrefutable facts while you are actually the one who is completely wrong. You don't have the experience in the game nor the understanding of the game to make changes like these. This is "lets delete all the doors" all over again, where you have to be explained how the game works.
for the rest I'm not really gonna argue much more with a guy that is just being disrespectful as that's a waste of time but if you just want my two cents I can tell you that as I see it Quake III Arena has always been about fast pace and that's exactly what makes it fun and not about the half hour tied duel tactics you often see on the pros finals which I assume is what you talking about.

for other than the money or may be for you, nobody would do that as that's not even fun to watch let alone to play, that's just boring. also let me tell you something else there's a reason why for other than you and a few handful people nobody plays that and it's such a death game.
Then duel isn't for you. That does not mean you have to ruin it for other people in your poor attempt to make it more exciting for yourself.
PS: yes I just showed a few tricks on standard maps for the fans and for fun as I'm telling you, obviously not claiming those were intended as on the vast majority of the rest of the custom maps (even the vanilla osp tier btw may be you didn't know but cpm is just a osp fork in reality that ended up replacing it) still I think they work great anyways and add to the game.
CPM is not an OSP fork. CPMA was a separate mod that ran with the "promode" concept that OSP invented. The two mods were being developed side by side and pulling code from each other. You can even read about some of this in the OSP release notes which are still up on the site. You are just making huge logic leaps to try and be the smart person in the room, when you clearly don't know half as much about the game as you think you do.

CPMA as a mod also never "replaced" OSP. It was adopted as the competitive mod for the final couple years of Q3 because of the spectator features. Largely everyone prefers OSP for the VQ3 game mode due to the movement differences (CPMA locks at 85 fps with boosted jump height). CPMA from there spun off into focusing on the promode gameplay and made many changes from the 1.0 release such as the balance changes (80 rail wasn't 1.0).

CPMA and OSP with promode enabled are also both MODS and not the vanilla game and not what people want when they want Q3. As stated numerous times before, if I wanted to play CPM then I'd just go play CPMA. The community is still right there and has regular shit going on.

You obviously just what promode and care nothing for VQ3, so at this point your mod is completely pointless and you should just scrap the whole thing and load CPMA on to the servers. CPMA players won't play anything but CPMA (see reflex death among others). Since you do not understand, care about, or play duel, it would be preferred if you weren't making any changes. This is a savior complex if I ever saw one: "I know what you want better than you do!"