The Doors

UnFreeZe/FreeFUn/glacius Game Servers forum.

how do you prefer the doors at q3dm8/14 on UnFreeZe1/2?

Poll ended at Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:44

always open
2
9%
normal mode
20
91%
 
Total votes: 22

PacMan
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Re: The Doors

Post by PacMan »

adminless wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:08 yes it seems like you guys hated this change very much with a passion. ok, in such case I guess that then tomorrow I can probably enable the doors again on UnFreeZe1/2 as the poll writes and completely disable all doors on all maps (competitive or not) on glacius. for the events as I said until it doesn't really get played and I see it with my very own eyes that it really leads to all that kind of (yet unspecified btw) "poor" gameplay you are all talking about it will stick there. as I explained of course there are times when changes can be wrong but not doing anything in the face of a incident like the one documented will never have a chance to be right from the start. blaming the guy/s for it (yes despite ironically it was their own first map choice) is neither a option nor realistic. the guys went shot the fourth historic top game of the events after that even without their top player led. it's a fact the guy/s know the way to Quake III Arena.
Thanks dude, on a side note it's not a bad idea to try things and see what response is given , so thanks for your work
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uZu
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Re: The Doors

Post by uZu »

Hey, thanks for the change.
And btw, no one claims to blame the player(s); for sure this is a valid tactic to defend the gate, this map is just not really suited for a fast/aggressive gameplay for a competitive event
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Re: The Doors

Post by Karen »

Thank you adminless!

According to some Korean proverb, I from now on assume that you must have three daughters... ;) *hugs*
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oKo*CTHULHU
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Re: The Doors

Post by oKo*CTHULHU »

can't you just close the door behind you? you are not in your barn
fakju *pizdukas voice
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WhoAmI
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Re: The Doors

Post by WhoAmI »

I prefer the door open. It's easier for me to hit by rail. In normal mode they often closed and I had to shoot plasma to open and change to rail gun.

What I don't like the most on the dm11 map are the gates where RA is.

It always closes when I want to hit the enemy and I hit the gate...
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adminless
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Re: The Doors

Post by adminless »

honestly before I saw the vid of the pro dude at dm14 on the other thread I had some reservations for the change at the public servers (as I commented) after watching it I had no more as I wrote there (that game worked perfectly and the change just as intended). even for the more casual/fun games at the pubs those doors serve no real purpose at this particular mode of course which is what this forum is about (not of other modes, no tdm, no duels etc) and they are only a hindrance to the game as you're noting. anyways, as said if people is gonna hate them so bad I can leave them stock on UnFreeZe1/2, it's not such a big deal. on glacius all doors will always be open and on the ranked one only those of the competitive maps (q3dm8/14).
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Re: The Doors

Post by PacMan »

WhoAmI wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 17:58 I prefer the door open. It's easier for me to hit by rail. In normal mode they often closed and I had to shoot plasma to open and change to rail gun.

What I don't like the most on the dm11 map are the gates where RA is.

It always closes when I want to hit the enemy and I hit the gate...
But Ami your are chempion reil dude

Anyway I watch you guys switch between weapons and use mg to open doors
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WhoAmI
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Re: The Doors

Post by WhoAmI »

And you can set this gate on dm11 near RA so that it is always open?
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Re: The Doors

Post by adminless »

yes I think so but the vote is 16:2 therefor I don't think there's much I can do about it on the pubs and currently dm11 was removed from the competitive pool for this edition. btw as usual if people change their mind during the poll time you can as well change your vote here.
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Re: The Doors

Post by aimer »

WhoAmI wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 17:58 I prefer the door open. It's easier for me to hit by rail. In normal mode they often closed and I had to shoot plasma to open and change to rail gun.

What I don't like the most on the dm11 map are the gates where RA is.

It always closes when I want to hit the enemy and I hit the gate...
I feel the struggle of salami when switching weapons to open the doors as indeed using the plasma gun is a nuisance and nobody wants to waste a precious rail just for that.

However, i want to argue that when playing "competitively" they do play a strategic role as they can allow players to position themselves behind it without being seen/heard before an attack (or even to partially "hide" while unfreezing). Unlike in public games where really it doesn't matter whether they are always open or not as the number of players and the pace keeps them open all the time anyway, tournament games play differently and correct positioning does make a difference for the outcome of an attack/defense.

Moreover, forcing the enemy to switch weapons prevents the constant camping of those "choke" points in maps that others have already complained about and a perfect example would be exactly the doors at the end of the quad room in q3dm14, or the doors leading to mega in q3dm8.

Finally it doesn't seem fair that such a change happens in the middle of the tournament as expectations on how maps play have been set already when the map pool was announced at the beginning. If no change is made to q3dm7 to affect the way it is played, why should there be a special case for other maps?

Would you consider discussing the introduction of this change after the tenths have been completed at least?
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Re: The Doors

Post by adminless »

I actually watched part of the game you talking about (1668809923 , which you did pretty good btw) before precisely to oversee that and I can probably upload it tomorrow here for evaluation. overall I believe that it worked pretty good although it's true that it does change the geometry of the map (and therefor it alter the gameplay) by allowing attacks from previously impossible places. as I see it that is a good thing (more vectors of attack) considering that those maps (specially q3dm14) are played mostly defensively. as for the comparison with the q3dm7 changes as I said I feel like these are a minor changes that are probably better to add otherwise you never introduce them. btw if people wants to tune q3dm7 so much I guess I can think about something for that too.
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Re: The Doors

Post by PacMan »

I feel the struggle of salami when switching weapons to open the doors as indeed using the plasma gun is a nuisance and nobody wants to waste a precious rail just for that.




Lol
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Re: The Doors

Post by adminless »

ok here you have that yesterday q3dm8 game rendered for evaluation.

I reviewed it once again now and I see it good to go. I mean if you compare it with a similar previously ranked training for your team against sbornaya that time (1620068657) the most significant game KIPs are all almost identical (only with the roles inverted of course) so it's not like it trashed the game or anything at all. I believe that probably the only thing of significance with the change is that now the already bad red armor placement got even worse with it being targeted from all sides which can make the game too chaotic so I simply relocated it into the corner at the stairs corridor that led to the pool as you can see on the attached screen and I believe that should probably stabilize the game and do it.

as for q3dm7 as I said I can think about it and evaluate different options but obviously that's some major critical change that will take me much more time.
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Liza
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Re: The Doors

Post by Liza »

Next tournament along with picking/blacklisting maps it might be useful to add other options like:
Team A chooses whether the doors are open or closed; Team B chooses where items should be (and Team A could blacklist some locations).
But speaking seriously it is strange to change map after teams choose it for playing and even after they practice playing.
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Re: The Doors

Post by adminless »

hey the blacklist thing (for the maps obviously) I think it ended up working pretty good and for the rest as I said before if you spot some problem with something the right thing to do is to at least try to correct it and not just let it be besides training is there for that reason, to test and tune/improve the game as necessary.