fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

adminless inside tournaments forum.
fernandinho1337
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:15

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by fernandinho1337 »

hi

lots of talks here and on discord as well:

1. fau and i talked and we both defintely do not want to play on a wednesday night because we both work and having to play 7 maps at our best during the week days we both do not feel up to it. can we schedule a weekend date like a sunday?

2. reading the discussions I realized the majority of the community actually shares mainly one opinion which I also share:
a. everyone acknowledges that ping is an important factor especially on an osp unlagged server.
aa. boosting my ping up artificially is a disadvantage to me because as stated here and on discord I am recently not used to play with that ping so even an identical ping is of disadvantage of me (especially given I cannot really find time to practise with it). this clearly favors fau
aaa. as i talked to fau about it he let me know he wants me to play at my best with my best ping indicating that he would be cool with me winning even at a ping advantage and there would not be bad blood between us anyways (@fau cheers to you mate)
ab. on a personal note: as you guys know I had played the first time against fau with ping disadvantage and won. 2nd time i went to a friends to play on someone elses computer to have a ping advantage but in the end it came down to the map choices (fau won his and i won mine each very clearly). so ping did not play too much of a role
abb. second personal note: i live in berlin germany and my internet used to be really bad (ADSL with effectively 11mbit and ping just below 30). my neighbors and i actually paid telekom to give us fibre to the home (serious money, 4 digit Euro amount) because they thought it is not economical to give it to us for free (i live right next to the biggest fibre area of telekom in berlin, unlucky me). but to get to the point it is quite a bummer that i pay serious money to get proper internet (given i have a family of soon to be 4 with lots of homeschooling going on and we rely on bandwidth and not so much on the ping) and get buffed by the admin and cannot use the connection properly :-) i wonder what will happen if my vdsl gets upgraded to the actualy fibre (ping decrease of up to 9ms more)

3. maps
a. i agreed when i signed up to the terms of tournament which means i accept playing random maps as well. same like everyone else. that is why people like heero did not participate because they were unhappy with the server for other reasons
b. admins proposal to play maps like cpm24 and hektik as a decider (which fau always won because he is better there) actually indicates to me that it is not about a fair fight but to make it close till the end. if i get a ping buff to really decide who is better than it would make sense to play the tournament map pool and not random stuff like cpm24 (i practised that one as well because i like it from q4 but chose never to play it against ctH or noobz because i felt it would be unfair/ random for the other person)

4. accusation of admin bias:
a. we have a history. we all know it. personally, i am over it but i dont know about others
b. see the maps proposal
c. admin stated above that to him i will not be undisputed if i play with ping advantage. in the community (among those ofc kf but also friendly competitors like oKo and fau) stated that the ping buff is crap
d. it is quite harsh to change the rules before the final (which adminless admit that ping is imporant) and link the noncompliance of rules to the promise of a ban/red card/ disqualification. the ping buff might be somehow explainable and might be subject to opion. the linked threat/ promise to ban is personal against me without a doubt

5. solutions either a or b or c or d that i preferred
a. we exactly play how we agreed when we signed up (including full map pool and no artificial ping handicaps)
b. i would consider playing with the ping buff if we cut the crappy maps
c. fau mentioned that he would rather forfeit the game than have me not winning because of disqualification
d. we play on adminless biased rule set and i give in to the threat.

best regards
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

just a quick answer (may be later I write more if you want)

1) yes sure the previous schedule of the 15 night is just fine, I simply changed it because I thought none of you wanted to wait any longer. ok, I'll move it to the 15 again then now.

2)
aa) you telling me you've been playing on exactly that ping average with much worse jitter for years (at least 4 I think) but now all of the sudden (just because of a casual month) you just can't do it anymore? really? want more time to prepare? I don't know man but I'm just not buying it and whatever my thoughts are then you're not so undisputed which is what we talking about here not of another player more.
ab) I know and that was a bit unnecessary as well as the dozens of unanswered smiles that followed on game fourth and you're admitting yourself there that you intentionally exploited the circumstances in order to consciously obtain a in-game advantage instead of honoring a clean and fair game when you had a chance to do so so this is now your perfect opportunity to redeem yourself for that. moreover if "ping did not play too much of a role" then exactly why you throwing a tantrum now over 11.65 msec??
abb) yes so now you telling as well that you spent big euro just to play three fights (that weren't even guarantee to happen) a year here. whatever money you spent on your connection you clearly did so to enjoy it somewhere else not with the sole intention of this.

3)
b) "admins proposal to play maps like cpm24 [ .. ] as a decider" where?? and hektik_b3 is a tie-breaker (the last one btw) as that's what came out from the database function, I haven't chose it. moreover and from the tie-breakers that came out pro-q3dm6 (campgrounds) , ztn3tourney1 (bloodrun) , hub3aeroq3 (aerowalk) , hub3tourney1 (dismemberment) , pro-q3tourney4 (verticalvengeance) , pukka3tourney2 (toxicity) , hektik_b3 (hektik) you consistently won/dominated 5 out of 7 so you now bringing the argument over hekit_b3 seems laughable at best quite frankly (dishonest in fact to me).

4)
c) I repeat once again if "the ping buff is crap" and so irrelevant then how it comes that you're throwing a tantrum just over 11.65 msec??
d) now "ping is imporant"?? how it goes that you're changing your ping statements from sentence to sentence, look this is not acceptable behavior. moreover I repeat please let me know in what point here I guarantee you 16.63 msec (or any other value) of ping at any given time??

5)
a) I would really like to know what changed? I repeat in what part it was agreed a specific ping measurement-time pair?? I would really like to know.
b) that seems realistic to me, besides I think that you don't even get it, you both chose three maps from the well known pool and the tie-brekaer comes out from the first one that hasn't been chosen of pro-q3dm6 (campgrounds) , ztn3tourney1 (bloodrun) , hub3aeroq3 (aerowalk) , hub3tourney1 (dismemberment) , pro-q3tourney4 (verticalvengeance) , pukka3tourney2 (toxicity) , hektik_b3 (hektik). I don't know, are you missing some map for your home choices?
fernandinho1337
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:15

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by fernandinho1337 »

Admin please read again and answer questions urself.

The ping buff is relevant to u that it was worth to u to threaten the finalist of former duel tournaments to red card. So you tell me how important it is. Weird rules fine, your way fo treating me is just wrong. Im jot throwing a tantrum btw. It is you who does it. I want to be treated normally. If you would atop messing around with server changes and such there would be no problem. You created that mess - as usual - again.
nickaero
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 20:40

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by nickaero »

dm1 only tournament when
User avatar
Bishop
User lv3
User lv3
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:13
in-game nick: bishop
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by Bishop »

Sometimes, it's hard to play the game and swallow the reality that this is not a world championship.
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

@miro np done now and I'm pretty damn sure of what I read and my answers, I reaffirm my stance now. I mean, I could obviously elaborate a bit more but I guess that there's no point in elaborating more with people who's words intentionally don't match their thoughts and that go around saying one thing and the opposite on the same sentence. I'm way done with that bullshit and you're not gonna engage me again on that so if you want to chose three maps from the pool for the 15 of May of 2022 at 21:00 CEST (UTC+02) (or any other date of your choice you want to agree in the short term) to dispute the grand final awesome just let me know if not that's perfectly fine as well to me. let's not forget that there has been another 7 top quality fights that were worth each the tournament alone so big shout out to anybody who participated and made this great tournament possible. for the rest the ping will be whatever it happens to be at that moment, as long as it's not higher than that of your opponent and a overall reasonable/playable value (i.e. 20-40, not +150 of course) that's even none of your business.
nickaero
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 20:40

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by nickaero »

Bishop wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 15:56 Sometimes, it's hard to play the game and swallow the reality that this is not a world championship.
True
fernandinho1337
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:15

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by fernandinho1337 »

If it were a serious championchips the admin wouldnt change the rules before finals to influence the outcome…

Fau will play on a calculator and i play blindfolded with my right hand arm tied to the back on a joystick :D
PacMan
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 16:09
in-game nick: PacMan.EZ
Location: u.k

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by PacMan »

kf wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:03 IT IS THE SAME POINT! it doesn´t matter what you change, but you DISADVANTAGE only ONE. if you want equal matches, than make a lan where all have equal setup.
the thing is, that you change a rule just for the finals, which is also unfair to other participants. think about orgi vs. mywife. orgi pings 6 and wife like 35. there nobody cared also but orgi for sure had big advantage just cause of ping.

the other thing is, that he doesn´t have a choice. if he doesn´t want to play with this setup, he will lose by default.

i repeat. rules were made before and everybody accepted to mappool and server locations by signing up.

if i would be miro, i would not play.
Kf wake up man , orgi uses time nudge lol he won using some skilz , sucked some oko blood you know

Good topic but wrong examples
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

well it's Sunday already so the weekend is closing in and after offer and invitation message I haven't heard anything back from either sn1 or noobzordofzords about the third place final then that means that have no heard anything else from them in what's left of the day it won't happen either and the third place will go for sn1 due better score cards at the semi finals (1:1.4 against 1:18.75). on a side note I think that the performance of the undercard events here that for other than the notorious exception of the ninth place none ultimately happened clearly proved for a fact that my thoughts that despite the requests the only realistic format for this event I saw happening was a direct knockout cup were indeed right. I know from experience that most totally lose interest and withdraw just after a single lose and that's even if they make it to losing with many not even reaching that point and withdrawing as well in the first place make any other kind of format impossible as can be seen.
RH
User lv3
User lv3
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 23:43

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by RH »

adminless wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:50 well it's Sunday already so the weekend is closing in and after offer and invitation message I haven't heard anything back from either sn1 or noobzordofzords about the third place final then that means that have no heard anything else from them in what's left of the day it won't happen either and the third place will go for sn1 due better score cards at the semi finals (1:1.4 against 1:18.75). on a side note I think that the performance of the undercard events here that for other than the notorious exception of the ninth place none ultimately happened clearly proved for a fact that my thoughts that despite the requests the only realistic format for this event I saw happening was a direct knockout cup were indeed right. I know from experience that most totally lose interest and withdraw just after a single lose and that's even if they make it to losing with many not even reaching that point and withdrawing as well in the first place make any other kind of format impossible as can be seen.
There is nothing on the line for them to keep playing. In a double elim bracket the matches are played because there is a chance they can still come back and win. In a real serious tournament the 3rd place match is played because of prize offered. Most tournaments do not try to find an exact placing for players and will list the final results with multiple people at "3rd-4th" or something like that. The rules of this tournament are single elimination and so after losing, there is no point to play further.

I feel like you jump to conclusions very quickly. It is appreciated when anyone runs events, but the lack of experience and understanding of the long history of quake duel tournaments definitely shows. Perhaps listening to feedback from experienced competitors would help steer things in a better direction as a lot of the issues encountered were already mentioned previously by others.
PacMan
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 16:09
in-game nick: PacMan.EZ
Location: u.k

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by PacMan »

RH wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:29
adminless wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:50 well it's Sunday already so the weekend is closing in and after offer and invitation message I haven't heard anything back from either sn1 or noobzordofzords about the third place final then that means that have no heard anything else from them in what's left of the day it won't happen either and the third place will go for sn1 due better score cards at the semi finals (1:1.4 against 1:18.75). on a side note I think that the performance of the undercard events here that for other than the notorious exception of the ninth place none ultimately happened clearly proved for a fact that my thoughts that despite the requests the only realistic format for this event I saw happening was a direct knockout cup were indeed right. I know from experience that most totally lose interest and withdraw just after a single lose and that's even if they make it to losing with many not even reaching that point and withdrawing as well in the first place make any other kind of format impossible as can be seen.
There is nothing on the line for them to keep playing. In a double elim bracket the matches are played because there is a chance they can still come back and win. In a real serious tournament the 3rd place match is played because of prize offered. Most tournaments do not try to find an exact placing for players and will list the final results with multiple people at "3rd-4th" or something like that. The rules of this tournament are single elimination and so after losing, there is no point to play further.

I feel like you jump to conclusions very quickly. It is appreciated when anyone runs events, but the lack of experience and understanding of the long history of quake duel tournaments definitely shows. Perhaps listening to feedback from experienced competitors would help steer things in a better direction as a lot of the issues encountered were already mentioned previously by others.
Lol far to serious of a reply, but some these messages I read probably have some other meaning behind them perhaps

I thought admin made these tournament as you said elimination all just fun

And the under card third or fourth is simply for those who just for fun, fun? As in f u n to continue playing in some way to have fun , as this quake 3 old game


However yeah before the next tournament maybe feedback can be looked at or maybe not , because it's actually no big deal

New generation b.......EZ is what comes to mind

No offence everyone
PacMan
User lv5
User lv5
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 16:09
in-game nick: PacMan.EZ
Location: u.k

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by PacMan »

fernandinho1337 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 18:20 If it were a serious championchips the admin wouldnt change the rules before finals to influence the outcome…

Fau will play on a calculator and i play blindfolded with my right hand arm tied to the back on a joystick :D
None of that will help me scratch either of you in a duel, preference is turn your monitor off and I play against you duel then it's fair :thumbup:
nickaero
User lv4
User lv4
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 20:40

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by nickaero »

Pacass shut ur ass u speaking nonsense soft faker
User avatar
adminless
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 19:05
in-game nick: not available
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

@RH you feel like I jump to conclusions very quickly? yes sure, like the first and second that can't even figure out whether or not to play over a, significant but probably not even so decisive/critical, 11.65 msecs discrepancy, the fourth and third that went radio silent just after a single lose, the sixth that resigned just at a game time of 6:04 minutes with a perfectly fine adverse 8:4 score, the seventh that got enough as well just after another single lose, the "tenth" that was put to sleep before even fighting and not even showed, the "eleventh" and "twelfth" that didn't even make it to be able to lose just one single fight, the "thirteenth" that can't even get any words about dates availability, the "fourteenth" that, oh boy, that one is probably still figuring it out till this day how to create a forum account and then it comes to you telling me that I jump to conclusions very "quickly"? are you kidding me? ok, now do you want to know how I see it? what I really feel like is that players like these don't really add anything to the game and the community and they are just a cancer. that's why of course I always put the so-called "casuals" first and the whole site/thing is more oriented towards them than the so-called "experienced competitors" as none of them waste any of your time with all this kind of meaningless arguments with no end. they just show up, try their best, have a good time regardless of the score/adversities and call it a gg with a smile on their faces which at the end of the day is what we're here for, to come together and have a good time enjoying the game, not for the "pride", the "fame", the "trophies" or the "money". for all the latter let me tell you that you're probably over twenty plus years late my friend so I don't know how the next edition will play out but probably don't expect any major/drastic changes from this. I guess that probably after this at some casual weekend on June another UnFreeZe stellar community fight (which is a very different thing btw) with a potential fpsclassico masters against UnFreeZe stars theme could be a good idea to try as well and see how it plays out. for the future, unless the demand for another edition here is high, which I don't see at the moment, I guess that probably until well after the summer or the winter I won't try to promote another edition.

@nick pac is actually well known for making random meaningless messages out of nowhere here but I think that this time he's actually on point on his response and just in line with everything I've been saying so far and my actual own response, no everything has to be the pinnacle and so serious. people (I mean, is supposed to/should at least) join here to have a good time (fun) playing a few competitive matches so in that sense that's why I find it disappointing that with the notorious exception of the ninth place nobody followed with any undercard events as those were the fights that provided the best matchmaking of all (i.e. balance and hence fun/excitement). I mean, I understand that regardless of the score (win or lose) what people really enjoys is to fight people of their skill (or at least as close as possible) and that there's obviously not fun in either getting smashed or smash somebody like 100:-10. a big part of the undercard event and small finals revolved around that matchmaking idea that's why I have the feeling that most people missed a big part of what the experience could have really been here.