fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

yes you got it right that's what it really takes to be undisputed, he will have to beat his opponent on equal latency conditions so there should be no disputes over the outcome (i.e. undisputed).
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by kf »

so if fau would have ping 80 he had to play with ping 80 also?
this is just unfair
everyone knew before how he pings to this server
everyone checked before how it feels to play there ( i think thats why heero also unsigned)

and now in final you change "ruleset" which obvious only disadvantages one player.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

yes, so what? I don't see why the latency would prevent somebody to win provided the value is the same for both of course (otherwise sure it would be a total rip off if now I come up with lag somebody twice as his rival, play mg only, do no armor or any other stuff like that). I mean, I understand that he bases his victories on just being the better player and his skills and not on having a lower ping than his rival and as I said I also believe he wants to be regarded by the community as such not just to be handed a tittle that otherwise it would hold no meaning.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by kf »

its just useless to talk, because for me it sounds like u take away the better equip from someone, to give him shit equip, which another one has, to make them "equal" and than you think he will be as good, as the other one is with his worse equip, which this one uses like everytime. i wouldnt agree that and wouldnt play with shit setup.
its like uefa giving ronaldo other shoes just before champions league final, with which he never played, only because uefa thinks he have "overpowered" shoe setup, when they compare to enemy teams shoe setup. sounds weird, would never happen cause its totally stupid.

u know what i mean?
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by PacMan »

kf wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:23 its just useless to talk, because for me it sounds like u take away the better equip from someone, to give him shit equip, which another one has, to make them "equal" and than you think he will be as good, as the other one is with his worse equip, which this one uses like everytime. i wouldnt agree that and wouldnt play with shit setup.
its like uefa giving ronaldo other shoes just before champions league final, with which he never played, only because uefa thinks he have "overpowered" shoe setup, when they compare to enemy teams shoe setup. sounds weird, would never happen cause its totally stupid.

u know what i mean?
Does Miro seem concerned? Not really

If there was an unfair advantage Miro wouldn't want it
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

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@kf I know what you saying but you're putting it/getting it all wrong. once again nobody is saying now that the guy has to play the final with a dusty trackball mouse and a curved wasted crt on let's say a 1 GHz melted down amd k7 slot cpu (i.e. equipment). following your soccer comparison all that is being said here is that if unfortunately on the final there's gonna be conditions that although all within the governing body accepted margins but that otherwise could affect the teams gameplay like light rain, a dry or a otherwise bit too high grass (which btw let me tell you that it literally lags the play on real life and it's a perfectly known and allowed circumstance), such play conditions (i.e. pitch) should obviously be the same and affect both not just one side. don't confuse one (the equipment) with the other (the pitch) because they are two very different things in soccer and I repeat otherwise with this here being played on two different "virtual pitches" (i.e. connections/latency) some sort of "undisputed" tittle under such conditions it would become no more which is what we talking about.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by kf »

IT IS THE SAME POINT! it doesn´t matter what you change, but you DISADVANTAGE only ONE. if you want equal matches, than make a lan where all have equal setup.
the thing is, that you change a rule just for the finals, which is also unfair to other participants. think about orgi vs. mywife. orgi pings 6 and wife like 35. there nobody cared also but orgi for sure had big advantage just cause of ping.

the other thing is, that he doesn´t have a choice. if he doesn´t want to play with this setup, he will lose by default.

i repeat. rules were made before and everybody accepted to mappool and server locations by signing up.

if i would be miro, i would not play.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

of course because one was just a casual ninth place and the other is a top competitive grand final with no other than a undisputed champion tittle at play just as I wrote like four messages ago already. obviously the standards as well as the expectations are gonna be different, you can't pretend them to be just the same thing.

"i repeat. rules were made before and everybody accepted to mappool and server locations by signing up."

good and I think that in fact both the mapool and the server remained the same so please let me know where there was any stance and/or guarantees about anybody's ping??
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by kf »

lol you really don`t get it. i hope that miro just quits and lets your all time favourite winning by default.

there was no rule about even pings before.

if you change any setup which is someone used to play with it, you also change the playstyle! is that so hard to understand?
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

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I repeat server is same whether it gives 16.63 msec or 28.28 msec of average latency, it hasn't changed. I don't recall to have guaranteed anybody here a specific latency at any given time as that doesn't even make any sense to begin with since as I wrote before I can't control the latency of external networks I don't operate. sure in this case is me intentionally evening out the pings so it will be a fair, controlled and known circumstance you can prepare for and anticipate but I can also tell you that given the case it could be that at some time you join the server for a event and it gives you some random crazy ping without me having anything to do with it so there's no such latency guarantees and that's part of the risk you assume when signing up for a tournament that will be played remotely. for the rest once again you seem to be getting it wrong, I don't care whoever tops this, if fau comes out of this as new lineal fpsclassico champion, good, if miro remains still undefeated and undisputed fpsclassico champion after this, good as well, both things works just fine for me so it's not that I want somebody to win. what I just don't want and what I also understand that he doesn't even want as well himself is for miro to win yet again another grand final with a terrific performance and the only thing to transcend from the community is that he only did so because of the lower ping not because of any of his skills. what I want to transcend from the grand final is a great fight and a discussion about skills and that the winner really gets regarded/accepted as undisputed or in the case of fau as lineal and on road to become undisputed and a positive experience that brings people together not endless arguments over the latency.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by kf »

if you have bad connection on matchday or something goes wrong in private you just deal with it, cant compete at matchday and swap the date or you just ok to get disqualified. if you play with those disadvantage and lose you also can be ok with it menthaly because YOU choose if you play or don`t.
but in this case someone decides how you have to play which is unfair!
i think that nobody would say that if miro wins, he only did it cause of ping aveRAGE.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by fau »

Look I don't think we need another drama over this. I can play as everyone else with whatever ping we've got. That was the assumption when we were signing up.
For the future events - I don't know, let's talk about it in the future. I'm looking forward to playing my last game for a while :)
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

@kf well I disagree with that and I think that even on this same thread you have examples of people upset with the latency and with hard feelings about the fact of having to compete against somebody else at a ping disadvantage over a latency dependent setup. matter of fact that even seem to be at the heart of one of the core reasons why this very specific thing engagement isn't specially high to say the least. as said implement this for any fight in general it would probably be overkill/unnecessary since again not everything needs to be that serious/the pinnacle however a grand final of this caliber is so I believe that it's a great opportunity to at least make up for that situation. besides I'm also telling you, crowding a undisputed champion under such circumstances it would really hold no meaning to me since, of course nobody is saying that that will be decisive factor, but there's no denying in the fact that the difference in latency is significant and that so is the impact on their games. well for the rest you can probably just think that due force majure technical reasons the connection simply got messed up at the time of the fight if that brings you a better peace of mind.

@fau I don't really see any drama here, I mean, he (miro) seemed excited about that.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by RH »

I would definitely say miro would win due to ping :) The problem absolutely exists. I can see where kf is coming from though that handicapping one player for the sake of "fair" competition, regardless of method, ends up being targeted and not a great solution. Latency matching seems like the only solution with the hard commitment to OSP, but springing it on the finals seems like poor planning and a knee jerk response to a lot of the competitors complaining about what is ultimately an OSP problem.

If I had known there was going to be latency matching I would have signed up with my 150 ping :D It is very true though that latency matching only being implemented in the finals can be seen as unfair to other competitors since the semis could have easily gone different if that was implemented.

It is worth pointing out that none of this would even be a concern if a more modern mod than OSP was chosen. Unlag options exist and are the best solution. Even non-unlag options that are better than OSP exist, such as cpma. OSP was abandoned as the competitive standard when Q3 was still alive, and saying "good players" as a collective whole have a preference for OSP is just false. Specific players might have a preference for OSP, particularly if the latency to an OSP server favors them, but most "good players" prefer good competition which there are better mods to achieve that.
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Re: fpsclassico masters tournament 2022

Post by adminless »

dude if you think that just because of a 10 msec difference (approx) you're gonna completely turn around a 75:4 score difference, let me tell you some, it's just not happening. the rest I think I already addressed it, not everything has to be the pinnacle and it's obviously not dealt the same a tournament fight than a grand final with no other than a undisputed tittle at play. also for the record the fau-sn1 semi was fairly balanced with both pinging 27-28-29 most of the time (approx), I monitored it so I didn't even observe any other issues/know what issues you're really talking about (zord? he moved past UnFreeZe duels champ on almost a double ping on the quarters same as sn1 with kf btw). additionally we talking about the 20-40 ping range here not 150 obviously (that's just unplayable) and as said if somebody think that 10 msec do really make such a performance difference (i.e. several orders of magnitude) let me tell you that they are simply lying to themselves but hey look whatever the case is, I don't even care, let's find out. the reality is that of course it does have some degree of impact on the game (of course not to a infinite extend but neither it's just meaningless bullshit or entirely the product of rage and excuses as some put it) so probably is better to just deal with this and really settle the score right here right now than later having to put up with all this bullshit.