When I say you had advice from experienced competitors, I was referring to myself and the numerous pieces of feedback I have provided. My history with quake is lengthy to say the least, and I have probably played more duel than anyone in the bracket. There are other people who seem to have a long history as well that are providing similar feedback though.adminless wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 14:58 @RH you feel like I jump to conclusions very quickly? yes sure, like the first and second that can't even figure out whether or not to play over a, significant but probably not even so decisive/critical, 11.65 msecs discrepancy, the fourth and third that went radio silent just after a single lose, the sixth that resigned just at a game time of 6:04 minutes with a perfectly fine adverse 8:4 score, the seventh that got enough as well just after another single lose, the "tenth" that was put to sleep before even fighting and not even showed, the "eleventh" and "twelfth" that didn't even make it to be able to lose just one single fight, the "thirteenth" that can't even get any words about dates availability, the "fourteenth" that, oh boy, that one is probably still figuring it out till this day how to create a forum account and then it comes to you telling me that I jump to conclusions very "quickly"? are you kidding me? ok, now do you want to know how I see it? what I really feel like is that players like these don't really add anything to the game and the community and they are just a cancer. that's why of course I always put the so-called "casuals" first and the whole site/thing is more oriented towards them than the so-called "experienced competitors" as none of them waste any of your time with all this kind of meaningless arguments with no end. they just show up, try their best, have a good time regardless of the score/adversities and call it a gg with a smile on their faces which at the end of the day is what we're here for, to come together and have a good time enjoying the game, not for the "pride", the "fame", the "trophies" or the "money". for all the latter let me tell you that you're probably over twenty plus years late my friend so I don't know how the next edition will play out but probably don't expect any major/drastic changes from this. I guess that probably after this at some casual weekend on June another UnFreeZe stellar community fight (which is a very different thing btw) with a potential fpsclassico masters against UnFreeZe stars theme could be a good idea to try as well and see how it plays out. for the future, unless the demand for another edition here is high, which I don't see at the moment, I guess that probably until well after the summer or the winter I won't try to promote another edition.
@nick pac is actually well known for making random meaningless messages out of nowhere here but I think that this time he's actually on point on his response and just in line with everything I've been saying so far and my actual own response, no everything has to be the pinnacle and so serious. people (I mean, is supposed to/should at least) join here to have a good time (fun) playing a few competitive matches so in that sense that's why I find it disappointing that with the notorious exception of the ninth place nobody followed with any undercard events as those were the fights that provided the best matchmaking of all (i.e. balance and hence fun/excitement). I mean, I understand that regardless of the score (win or lose) what people really enjoys is to fight people of their skill (or at least as close as possible) and that there's obviously not fun either getting smashed or smash somebody like 100:-10. a big part of the undercard event and small finals revolved around that matchmaking idea that's why I have the feeling that most people missed a big part of what the experience could have really been here.
It was pointed out that OSP is a problematic and not very competitive mod that is archaic by today's standards with much better stand-ins that are accepted for vq3 competition. You have CPMA at minimum which handles ping significantly better and was the actual replacement for all high profile tournaments during quake3's actual pro competitive era. There are other options though, such as e+ with the vq3 ruleset, and while not 100% correct it would be accepted by a majority of actual serious duel players if it meant more fair matches. The issue with ping difference in the grand finals is ONLY a problem because of OSP, and if the advice was listened to earlier we would not be in this situation.
Basically everyone agrees that imposing artificial ping on one competitor is an unfair application of rules that did not exist at time of sign up. Your insistence here contradicts both players as well as all other duel players who have weighed in. Yes, the ping difference is a problem. No, artificially lagging one player is not the solution as it is a targeted handicap for one player.
The map pool was also noted as a problem, and has come back as a problem several times. Nobody had even voted some of the more fringe maps. Duel is played on a very small amount of maps because a very small amount of maps make for good duel games. Even cutting out all the junk, there are still 9 good playable maps in the map pool which is plenty. Even with all duel maps in the pool, anyone who wanted to specialize in a weird map can do so and likely have a surprise pick to win a set. It is boring for both players and spectators when some one doesn't know a map and all competitors should reasonably be expected to know all the maps in the pool at least from a layout perspective so they aren't lost.
The map decider format is in a way that I have never seen in a competition before, and that is really saying something considering how many competitions I have watched or participated in. This format of a predetermined list of deciders will always favor a player who is good on the most popular maps played on the server (ie who plays the most). This can impact map picks, and cause other problems. Honestly kf only lost because he banked on dm6 being the decider instead of picking it because it is his best map. This is coming back around in the finals now with miro being unhappy with the decider as well. Typically a decider should be unbiased. With a good map pool (which this is not), players can eliminate maps until a single one is left and play the deciding game on that.
Anyone could easily tell you that single elim tournaments mean people are just done after one loss. Asking them to come back and play show matches while they are discouraged from losing will not result in many games. With double elim, the games get played because there is always a chance they can make it back to the finals. The only reason 3rd place matches get played in big tournaments is because they have to decide who gets third place prize. There is not much incentive for people to keep playing with the rules and format you have designed, and I am not sure how you are surprised by this. Single elimination is usually only used when time is a concern, such as if you are running a tournament in a single day or over a weekend.
Yes this is a casual "for fun" tournament, but duel is just naturally a more serious game mode. All of these problems have been solved in the past and most duel players have this information. Playing "for fun" is the same casually outside of a tournament, as well as "for fun" inside of a tournament. What is different about a tournament is that wins and losses matter. So if you have a single elimination tournament and people are already eliminated, their wins and losses no longer matter and they might as well just play casually outside of the tournament from then on. Sni and noobzord both play together, so it isn't like they will not play each other, but they won't play for the tournament because there is no reason to.
Not being familiar with duel is perfectly fine. It is a hardcore game mode only enjoyed by a few people. However, it would really benefit everyone if the advice of people who actually know duel is listened to. The only thing I have heard is "all good players prefer osp" which is just false, and then everything else seems to be pulled out of thin air. The tournament is called "masters" so you might as well take it seriously enough to at least avoid problems that are pointed out. I personally do not respect the outcome of this tournament at all considering the circumstance.
It is appreciated to host an event in the first place, but please know your limitations and listen when others try to help you succeed.
