UnFreeZe Super League 2023

[fau]

OK but as you've already seen, people really don't like when you straight up prevent them from teaming up or tell them to play with someone else. I don't know how I'd feel if, eg, I was told I can't be in one team with someone from current team community.

I'm sure there are other ways to make it easier for new players to get into. Because again, I don't see other old teams being "scared" of playing vs team immortal and not willing to participate because of it. biggest problem I saw was that we had so many new players (team dt) and didn't make great use of this situation.
Here is one idea - I didn't really thought it out just trying to show that there are other ways.

1. Have two tournaments - "open" (no limits to who plays) and "controlled".
2. For controlled tournament make few (maybe 3?) rough player "tiers" and assign them to players before the league start arbitrarily (based on stats or whatever).
3. For example, allow at most 2 players from tier 1 to play in a single game for a team in "controlled" tournament. So you can still have all best players in one team, but they can't play at the same time. Require at least one "tier 3" player, to make space for newcomers.

Now you've got these two opposing forces - "open" tournament makes good players aggregate, and "controlled" tournament makes them spread as good players generally want to play and not watch on gtv.
Or just skip the "open" tournament altogether. It should still make it worthwhile to have at least 2-3 tier 1 players but no more. But if you really want to play with someone - you can even have 5, they just can't all play at the same time.

If "open" tournament is allowed to have different teams than "controlled" then I expect it will quickly degrade to basically two teams, maybe three. So it would be a minor event like your superfights, not a full blown league.

Just some ideas without really thinking them through, I'm not saying it's perfect. But idea of making player "tiers" based on your stats and doing something with that looks promising to me. Just maybe not necessarily forcing or preventing players to play in specific teams altogether.

[aimer]

Just to clarify my previous post, i was specifically referring to team community where basically if a player is available on match day they always play at least one map. In our case, players with less games were really just less available and we didn't have alternatives other than play with the 5/6 that managed to free themselves for the given day. We would have rotated more if we had more players available in the team but with the cap at 8 players and the partial inactivity of some, there was not much room for rotations.

[adminless]

@pacman xD as said I'm in for anything that happens I simply put here the data that people had asked for and was claiming that I was just making it up instead to discuss/comment about it. also make clear once again that these are all individual stats so although they obviously play a significant role and serve as base to determine the game they don't even linearly and necessarily translate themselves like that later on to the actual team game and results. let's not forget about that and keep in mind that at the end of the day what really should be accounted for are the actual results here rather than just some "silver bullet" metric/figure that magically it's gonna fix everything as I said before.

@fau look I'm gonna be honest with you with this, in my opinion if the uncontested undisputed undefeated number one player in the community effectively refuses/declines to play (i.e. is just not gonna do it basically) with anything besides the current number two, three and six rated players in the community against lesser opponents then it's his problem not mine. the same goes for the player number two, number three and number six if that's the best they can do I'm not interested in such players and such players are clearly never gonna put themselves through anything of what you're talking about and are really not gonna add anything here if not the opposite to take away from the community so I don't even think that would work. last but not least hey you also have to count with me, you claim that old teams are not "scared" of playing immortal (aka that they do not get bored of losing unbalanced games), well I'm not even quite sure of that but again as before let's just assume that you're right and go by it. I don't know about other teams but at least I can tell you for me that I don't do this just to see if one team happens to lose one match out of the blue or none as there's really no fun and excitement in that so I'm not interested in any of that and I even know from experience that that kind of things are exactly what ends up by ruining the things up (ex. just look at the masters things, yeah you do that one or two times but beside that, that's it, nobody does it). I mean if you just want to do that you can perfectly do that yourselves without me, I won't prevent you from doing that and you don't really need me for that, however I assume that people come here to play in a organized and meaningful (yes call it controlled if you want) way and not just as its goes so that's the standard they demand and expect from this. hey don't get me wrong I'm not upset or anything, I appreciate your feedback and I understand where you're coming from, I'm just being honest with you as I'm telling you.

@aimer ah yes I get you unfortunately as you can understand I just can't start making different rules for every different team, it just doesn't work like that. anyways, as with fau and everyone else (immortal included), I'm not upset or anything, I'm just saying and I wasn't even targeting team community with that. that was all (the players rotation with the exception of immortal) good.

[kf]

hi guys
so you are arguing the most time about stats, mvp whatver. in our case i was really positive surprised to the last game between us and oko, because i just saw, that anyone of us finally understood what to do and how to play against them. there are specific things where any teams have advantages and disadvantages. i did analyse the most and told my mates what to do. at the first game vs oko we were being surprised at first map and kept it that way which was a mistake, because we finally lost the matchup at 1st leg. as i told, i never forced any players to play or not play, i always left it to their oppinion. so when a masin told, that he leaves his spot for a viper, crm or even heero or me for the team success, i will not argue with him. its his choice, we had such "discussions" many times and we always decided just at the games who wants to play. squiddy many times just told i wanna leave my spot for any other mate because she wasnt feeling good in shape of whatever. these guys are totally teamplayers and thats the reason why you mostly saw such lineups. its not me olc or heero who told players who should play. many times also shantu would have given his spot, but mates decided in favour of team and success. in case of the last game where i left my spot for anyone at the first 2 games you might be right when you said our team could be succesfull in any lineup. i think oko just pretty much played super careless at last game anyways, it felt like they just thought "lets just end this season" - there was missing fire in any case. And our czech superior really had a very good day tbh. when it comes to your mvp and your statistics you always bring... i still think you are totally ignoring the real things which makes a mvp. you might just think about kills/damage and thaws/deaths. you call a player mvp who always plays for himself, never cares for his team and mostly being last to get easy kills while backwarding and railing - which btw also grants the enemyteam for next round, because they are getting full stacked again, so in this case he should be "most ignored player". but thats just a sidekick. i even think that any players of dt are even more mvp than a player who always stays in background and just pulls easy rails at the end - my oppinion. i would always prefer to recruit players which just started to play quake than getting him in that case for example. you think the wrong way. we were only successfull because we had patience and did the right things at the right time. it wasnt about dmg. output mostly, because in that case we mostly would have lose. we just used our players effective in any case. if you wanna name such mvp than you could decide between olc or heero, which just were all the time in superior shape and really carried lots of games.
*edit*
and ofc anyone else leaders of other teams like RICKY Blaze fau or even Ed.

[PacMan]

hi guys
e time in superior shape and really carried lots of games.
*edit*
and ofc anyone else leaders of other teams like RICKY Blaze fau or even Ed.

Wtf??? All teams play that way and give up there spots

Dude you guys got skilz (Ricky learning to be a team player though lol)

[Liza]

@kf In my view, you did a great job with strategic and tactical planning. Was it best or one if the best is hard to say. But in most games the team had an understanding what they were doing and if map was played badly, next time you fixed mistakes.
But this fact only enhances the domination you have, because high individual skills were multiplied by proper management.
For example, ILM also has skilled players but they keep loosing games having positive dmg and nobody is offended.

[adminless]

@kf dude I think I made it pretty clear already I just brought all this discussion about stats here because that's exactly what your homie along with you asked for and overall he and you (baseless) casted doubt over doing this at random (yeah like by flipping some coins) or just straight up out of bad faith. otherwise I would have just posted this and moved on as usual since I repeat that there was not even need for this as just by actually watching the fights it was quite clear that although it wasn't terrible some things could have definitively been done some better and therefore will have to be accounted for another potential edition as can be seen. as for whether you neglected those guys or those guys just neglected themselves it makes no difference to me since all were part of the team and therefore that's what I will ultimately have to account for and whatever the case is you're actually making it pretty clear yourself that it wasn't just something you did out of the random but a intentional decision you (as a team) made in favor of the team success at the expense of the competition spirit here. may be next time those guys should consider themselves why they sign up for a team they later are not really gonna participate for or you, yourselves, should also consider why you take players that effectively refuse/decline to play for you later on (i.e. that are just not gonna do it). I repeat whatever the case is I'm not here to micromanage the teams so it doesn't really matter to me whether it's the latter or the former, I treat the teams as a whole unit and if then that's the way it's really gonna be (i.e. that's the reality) then I'll have to act accordingly as it can't be otherwise and as already shown the Thursday (that's probably about the way this would have overall been and that more casual spirit you're referring to went both ways).

as for the mvp discussion and so I find it pretty hypocrite that you show up here to complain about such talks to then spend yourself half your message precisely arguing solely about that and making it all about it. first to begin with, I repeat, this time to avoid this kind of controversy I didn't even pick the mvp or build the best eight list myself as I usually do (ex. yes I made olc the best player in the second leg as I do really believe he was finally up to the standard there btw) if not that it came straight from the season ranking so I don't even think this time there should be much to argue about it. that said this has already been brought (privately) other times so now if you want me to personally answer you that instead the answer for that it's pretty simple, you're just neglecting the facts and totally biased in your statements. may be to better address this we should look back a bit, it wasn't until the year 2022 that finally ami parted ways with all that wtf bullshit to join a oKo clan that at that time was ranked like basically last and with a team rating in the order of the mid 1400's approx to then flip it into none other than a champion team right that season, completing a perfect undefeated regular season with his team the next year against the likes of all mighty teams to later on go as far set a historic team rating record that still stand till this day. for comparison now tell me what it's that both olc and/or heero had accomplished with their own original teams? olc lead soobshchestvo as loverex instead to some historic defeats (at the time) in the same season oKo won just to then come back and deliver a notorious fifth place win against at the time newcomers ass in a match that is still being talked about this day but then that was all about it, he just completely threw it away (his team) to then team up behind the scenes with none other than the uncontested undisputed undefeated super champion with a fake nick and hey all those guys talked his language so the communication wasn't a barrier. and as for heero the same in the same regular season that oKo went undefeated with just a regular team as you can see nothing over the top Over 30 unfortunately just could only score one game (meaning map) the entire season despite counting with a more than competitive line up to then just completely throw it away (his team) the next event to team up with none other than the uncontested undisputed undefeated super champion. ok so now go ahead and talk about the results and team impact, it's not ass licking and shit talking, it's just the way it's the moment they or somebody else accomplish something remarkably similar then I'll personally start considering them mvp players until then there's nothing exceptional for the players number 2, 3, 6 and 13 to take a championship against lesser combinations of players. that's exactly the expectation and one of the real problems at discussion here (that the top players instead of grow their teams they straight up kill them entirely to instead team up together) rather than having newcomers like dt and anything else would have been a upset/disappointment to be honest. I said this other times (with pride back then) the reality is that by teaming up like this you are just preventing you all yourselves from really developing individually and competing for this kind of acknowledgements. look at the end of the day is as simple as this, do you really believe that by replacing ami with let's say olc or heero as you named them or just anybody else for that matter (miro, ixsy whatever) you would have flipped the results and would have made oKo champions or just had had a higher impact in oKo? ok if you really believe that you have it very easy then next event team up with a regular team and actually show me instead. that's it.

@liza yeah I know good points as I was also noting individual skill doesn't necessarily directly translate into higher team performance however that said as usual with everything there's a point to that and there's only so much skill that you can make up with team play (or any other tactic) so when I believe that virtually every single metric points in a direction that clearly tells you that probably there was something that could have been done better and that should be accounted for another potential event.

[kf]

so tell me what did we exactly do at last leagues? we came from zero to hero. and btw if those russian twins wouldnt be retarded like hell you would have seen a more dominant team surely. i dont care by now - its history, we won back2back events and thats it.

and for your mvp talking stuff ill just take it short.
oKo´s "best" player is their biggest weakness.

2 short examples for the differences between a good and a bad player...

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx7pV67x ... 05GDI3NITz

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxGK_RK4 ... C2DpC421Xx

[Heero-2b]

[...]I think we have a lot of data, or admin, and it can be really good to work from. Now we have data from other events mixed in, but I think that can be sorted. I think this is a really good opportunity to make future events more transparent and set really clear rules for everyone.[...]

ok https://ranked.fpsclassico.com/SL23/ there you have it now go and teach me some math to show me with actual figures that indeed your effective real team performance/skill was more or less on average with the rest of teams excluding Double Trouble as you put it, go ahead. in the mean time as it seem you liked that "skill" metric and even despite as people told out of all the metrics there that's probably the less relevant of them all in what follows I'll summarize that for you anyways and then we'll see if even that's really the case.

awesome then beside that we're finally all done as can be seen there the final official best eight of the season is ami, olc, heero, ironmoneky, infinity, kf, fusion and aimer then with ami as mvp of the season for the second time in his career and in that order, congrats to all them. as said, despite the order is probably not that different from the one I had given previously. kf as brought before although I wouldn't put him directly in the top eight for a variety of reasons (not just personal you also have to account for the people these guys play with as that also plays a major role in ultimately their final performance) I'd nevertheless rate him in the top 10 so the only significant differences there are the inclusion of fusion in place of blaze and of aimer in place of fau that it appears they did some better in this specific period of time along with the notorious absence of Ricky (came ninth there) that probably missed a few games to make it there (btw that rewards activity) and that probably didn't shine as much as other people did during this period of time. anyways, terrific games.

Hello,

Thank you for the statistics and data you provided. Before I elaborate, just for my understanding. Why is the skill regulation so important to you? Or else, what do you want to achieve?

[adminless]

@kf dude I don't even know what you want me to tell you now. on last last season as wtf/diamond I think you were by then with a already arguably overpowering team (as you're putting it yourself) that already included no other than the man himself, the uncontested undisputed undefeated super champion miro, with this olc top five guy and you (a top 10) along with other competitive players failed to really make a statement and fell behind oko all the same that went undefeated that whole regular season when according to these stats now beside ami their second best player is just on par with your actual fourth player instead. I think that should speaks volumes about ami real feats, dude is pulling those scores really at 1:3 disadvantages, and show you that neither olc nor even miro himself exclusively in this specific mode and only at that specific period of time had such a impact in the game.

@heero to keep this interesting and exciting if not for everyone as that's not always gonna be possible at least for the majority, I don't think that's difficult to understand. I mean, I believe that by now everyone around here has at least understood that.

[Liza]

ok https://ranked.fpsclassico.com/SL23/ there you have it now go and teach me some math to show me with actual figures that indeed your effective real team performance/skill was more or less on average with the rest of teams excluding Double Trouble as you put it, go ahead. in the mean time as it seem you liked that "skill" metric and even despite as people told out of all the metrics there that's probably the less relevant of them all in what follows I'll summarize that for you anyways and then we'll see if even that's really the case.

awesome then beside that we're finally all done as can be seen there the final official best eight of the season is ami, olc, heero, ironmoneky, infinity, kf, fusion and aimer then with ami as mvp of the season for the second time in his career and in that order, congrats to all them. as said, despite the order is probably not that different from the one I had given previously. kf as brought before although I wouldn't put him directly in the top eight for a variety of reasons (not just personal you also have to account for the people these guys play with as that also plays a major role in ultimately their final performance) I'd nevertheless rate him in the top 10 so the only significant differences there are the inclusion of fusion in place of blaze and of aimer in place of fau that it appears they did some better in this specific period of time along with the notorious absence of Ricky (came ninth there) that probably missed a few games to make it there (btw that rewards activity) and that probably didn't shine as much as other people did during this period of time. anyways, terrific games.

Hello,

Thank you for the statistics and data you provided. Before I elaborate, just for my understanding. Why is the skill regulation so important to you? Or else, what do you want to achieve?

Man, why is it so important for you to give your teammates (masin and squid) a "fair" chance to win by adding 4 damagedealers?

[kf]

we are just wondering why everyone is telling bullshit like we would be overpowered, we are just decent players with a skill level which anyone has at ilm for example and ofc you are getting placed higher if you win more games.
about that ami bullshit its really easy to explain. at such season everybody was happy there to have him and surely let him take any item which is avail. with his human shields in front of him and his 150/200 stack he surely survives very long time and because hes a backward only which surely uses some kind of hack (i asked many players at other teams about their oppinion too btw.) he was able to escape many times.

[Heero-2b]

@kf dude I don't even know what you want me to tell you now. on last last season as wtf/diamond I think you were by then with a already arguably overpowering team (as you're putting it yourself) that already included no other than the man himself, the uncontested undisputed undefeated super champion miro, with this olc top five guy and you (a top 10) along with other competitive players failed to really make a statement and fell behind oko all the same that went undefeated that whole regular season when according to these stats now beside ami their second best player is just on par with your actual fourth player instead. I think that should speaks volumes about ami real feats, dude is pulling those scores really at 1:3 disadvantages, and show you that neither olc nor even miro himself exclusively in this specific mode and only at that specific period of time had such a impact in the game.

@heero to keep this interesting and exciting if not for everyone as that's not always gonna be possible at least for the majority, I don't think that's difficult to understand. I mean, I believe that by now everyone around here has at least understood that.

@adminI'm sorry, but what kind of nonsense is that? I personally find it interesting to play against better teams. Besides, who's it supposed to be interesting and exciting for? Maybe it is for the players. Did you ask them? I haven't heard anyone who's bothered by the current lineups. No one's said anything to me personally, have you? Can anyone here please chime in who was bothered this year? Or is this supposed to be interesting and exciting for you?

I'm sorry, but before we get any further, I'd like to be clear on the most trivial thing.

@liza, sry, but i dont understand you

[adminless]

@both no need to play it dumb now and act like now you don't understand a thing. I'm not gonna waste any more time explaining the obvious (yeah you all find it so interesting that you just killed your own teams to build a stronger one, how about you start applying that to yourselves?!). it's the way it's and sure I also made it clear that I'm also part of this and that this also has to work for me as it can't be otherwise. I'm not interested in organizing a unbalanced league that goes nowhere just like that and I'm quite sure that in the long run nobody wants part in any of that either and if for some reason I happen to be wrong then that's my problem not yours. whatever the case is I'm not gonna be stupid enough as to wait to find it out so be it.

[Heero-2b]

I apologize in advance that my post is as long as Christian Grey's penis, and for those who don't want to read it, I wish you a merry Christmas

I'm trying to figure out who it's supposed to be interesting and balanced for. Again, that's a terribly subjective view.

1) I'm going to assume you're not doing this for yourself.

2) For the audience? Virtually only players from other teams go to gtv, if we count the 2-5 people on gtv who weren't in the tournament. So it's not for that group either.

3) For new participants? Which new participants have you managed to attract with your approach? I convinced the DT team to eventually sign up, otherwise I'd like to point out that we'd be talking about a "league" with four teams, which is not a league. So it's not for this group either.

4) For the players themselves. This is probably the most important thing, considering that the tournament has about 50 players participating, it should be done mainly for them. From my point of view as a player, if I was in the position of the lower teams for example, it would just be the most exciting thing for me to play against the better teams and try to beat them, figure out tactics on them, strengthen the team and try to win the league. *


* If the other teams have exhausted their resources then we can talk further, but I don't think so.

---------------------------

The league was interesting, I don't want to speak for the others, but I got the feeling it was interesting until the last minute (if team oKo didn't have one contumacy). We saw a lot of interesting games, a lot of interesting results, surprising performances. The regulation you have in mind will only make it a potato chip. If anything, in a sensible way, for example I really like Fau's idea. Considering that only 2 tier 1 players could enter the game, I've already started thinking,how we could split our clan into two evenly matched teams and maybe Miro would play. The other teams, with the support of tier 2, tier 3, tier 4 players would definitely also make two teams and we would have 12 teams in the next spring/summer league if I'm being optimistic. And I think those could be really nice and evenly matched games. Try to think about that some more.
And at the same time, we have an exemplary inclusion of the lower players, really beautiful.

Unfortunately, you don't give much of an alternative.

Your regulation will kill another team and maybe more, you won't attract anyone new or you haven't succeeded yet (I can help you with that, I'm serious).

Like if I left, where would I play to meet the regulatory quota? I couldn't or wouldn't want to join another team or I would have to start a new team and I may not want to do that either for example or there are no players for that, so what is my alternative? We also have to factor in that people want to play together for a reason, country, friendship, whatever, that has to be respected, as Fau himself said.

Honestly I was surprised by the stats, although I don't find the difference of 50 points per team very significant. I respect the numbers you posted. It might be worth adding more variables to those stats to give a more objective perspective to the individual rankings. I can take an example, sorry to talk about you, but to me you are a good player. CTH player ranked 12th, rank 922. The difference from me is a rank of 106. Is that a lot? Not enough? It seems like a lot, at least according to the numbers you're ranking, it seems like a lot. But he's a great player, he has excellent aim, as he wrote himself, he can give great info to the team. He's not a pusher, but he's a defensive player that every team would want to have around. And yet he has such a low rating, now tell me, is that relevant? Let's all with brains answer, of course it's not. And if it is, we can consider a 100 point difference in this rank as not that big of a difference. Plus, the numbers absolutely exclude tactics.

Which is perhaps the most important thing in the end. Team Immortal turned out to be the best prepared tactically and have great team play. With that comes results and with results come numbers (stats).
If the DT team had won the whole league, their players would probably have dominated the stats, after all it's logical.... So why are you bringing this up?

I guess I know why after all and you showed it with your last post. You're doing it for yourself, you said it yourself and you don't want to wait to be found out you're wrong. "I'm not interested".... but this isn't about you. This is going to fade away here very quickly once you get your shit together.
so start doing something for the community, the community is not here for you. you enjoy running servers, you enjoy organizing tournaments, who are you going to do it for when you screw us up?
I don't mean to say that you don't do anything for her, but you don't listen.


---------------------------------


@ everyone I would like to have something else for all the participants of the tournament. I think this review might please some players, and at the very least it carries more weight than someone who only sees Quake in codes.

MVP, what is it? from a review by someone who has never played it? pffff


1) team Oko

I really like their team play and thinking above the game. They have great personalities and really good aimers, pretty much everyone there. I can see CTH, AMI, cacahuete, walnut giving 40-50 LG to the audience with no problem, when team tactics are added, it makes a really unpleasant combination.

2) ILM

even though it's not working as a team for them as they would have imagined, I think it was mainly related to the first half of the tournament, I would like to stop at two players. Blaze, I've been watching the stats for both ranked and pick up matches and the DMG that Blaze can dish out is really impressive. The second player is Fus1on, I met him in duels, as an insignificant muggle, today I would like to have him in the team. I really like that he's really in the right places at the right time, that's more important than the whole DMG and aim and whatever.

3) community

you can really see that Fau is a director. I also had no idea that Aimer was such a really strong player.

4) DT

I watched a few matches on GTV and I absolutely did not expect how these players improved. I should already have min. 2-3 players that I would draft under the new rules. And thanks again for putting up with it, but I think it gave you a lot too.

5) Ass

the individual qualities of the players are unreal. Ricky is possibly the best aimer in the league in my opinion. There isn't a player here that I would say is an outright weakness if I take the base, Angel - rail good as hell, Cliff great aim, Infinity, (rico, I watched him recently and was very surprised how well he plays), just when I take that set, I almost want to throw up from the stress. Once they improve team tactics and discipline, they will be very, very dangerous.

6) Immortal

I must say that KF is a real leader. And as for MVP or whatever, look at the players with the name OLC. Everyone wants to have that in the team. Tank, fighter, bulldozer and other attributes, he is really strong, an experienced player, the essence of all attributes.

thank you all for participating and I look forward to more great matches with you.